Upgrade - From Haibike Bosch CX to Cheapo BBS01

[Deere John]

Today on the way home the left crank started to rub against the swing just what I was afraid of, has just happened. Don't know what happened really, guess the swing flex did swing too much or something. Think I will try to quick fix this by slightly bending the crank arm a little, Z-shaped 5mm or so would do it. Yes I might loose rigidity but it will work

Agree with others here , 60 to 80 is the "normal" range for keep current

Tried with 60% now, didn't get that sensation as when I increased current decay, but it starts to feel a little more "normal" now I think like it should have done from the beginning. Can't believe how bad stock settings was! Luckily I bought the USB cable before I even maidened the bike

You can control your battery usage better by setting a nice wide range of PAS settings.

Yes, I believe that's the way. Just that you get tempted to use the highest setting all the time but I like riding trails on moderate assist though, feels more bike-like and you are more connected somehow.

So next thing to try is adjusting the PAS-settings. Have not tried so much yet, will give these new settings a while to sink first.

I also need to adjust the throttle. It is quite bad for using as push assist controller. The push assist button is also lousy so I really need to get this throttle working the way I want. Guess if I lower the maximum speed on throttle I get the result, maybe, but that doesn't feel right either.

Thanks all, have now got my bike working good! Just need to ride it now and get used to everything, getting to know each other.

/edit: I replaced the PDF with one that has correct display stock values

 

[KirstinS]

Just on the tempted to use max all the time point....i have terrible range anxiety! I did 30 miles with 2000ft of a ascent.....and still had half my battery left !

I went from a 16ah to a 12ah battery and clearly over compensate !

I think it comes down to doing long rides. Unless you are really extreme then you are aware that a really long ride requires abstemious use of your battery . Or get 30plus ah of battery as some do (i can't afford it just yet !)


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[peter.c]

I have a large capacity battery 27 ah the extra weight[about 2 pounds ] is far outweighed by the smile factor and not having to think about range not had to do the walk of shame yet ride on full pedal assist level 9

 

[KirstinS]

I have a large capacity battery 27 ah the extra weight[about 2 pounds ] is far outweighed by the smile factor and not having to think about range not had to do the walk of shame yet ride on full pedal assist level 9

Hehe ! It's not the extra weight it's the extra rupees for more ah [emoji12]

Plus, I'm kinda aware that range anxiety keeps me fit. Give me a 48ah battery and I'll be a , well, fat barstewerd in about a month


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[Deere John]

I did a 43km ride today on about 50% trails, rest gravel/asphalt. Elevation over 900m but it was quite though trails, places I wouldn't have biked unassisted. And still, battery only half empty! (36.9V). That was really good I think.
(one hill was up a mountain, like 30-35 degree slope, I would have had a hard time pedalling up there, but this bike climbs like a goat now! so that was only fun, it was actually harder going down )

 

[Deere John]

Today on the way home the left crank started to rub against the swing just what I was afraid of, has just happened. Don't know what happened really, guess the swing flex did swing too much or something.

alright! it was easy, Bafang has some AC08 left offset crank arm set. Check this out:
https://www.empoweredcycles.com/products/offset-left-crank-arm-bafang-bbs02-bbshd

 

[peter.c]

another convert to the bbs01 why buy when you can build
After a few goes with the laptop you hit the sweet spot and stop adjusting the software and just enjoy the ride
The usb cable is an essential item as the stock programs are so varied and mostly disappointing have fitted three now all from the same supplier all had different programme values .
At 36.9 what does you bms cut off at and did the budget battery sag

 

[Deere John]

Today I was riding my road commuter with front hub drive. It is actually faster, and stronger, uphill. At least on this 1km long climb (6% grade) I have on the way to work. That took 3:06 with the Bafang but only 2:28 with this bike! But they are quite different programmed:

Front hub drive: It has no "current decay", "keep current" is at 100% all the time (I have not these parameters, but if they would exist it should be like this ) On full assist it just pulls as long the controller last (and it doesn't last so long when maxing out! based on previous experiences with several burnt S06S). Don't know how many amps it is pulling but controller is rated to 14A. Guess it pulls more when maxed out. It is quite battery intense also, draining battery much faster than the BBS01. Geared for speed I think, when trying with no limits I could "pedal" at 42km/h on flat without braking a sweat. So it is quite optimized to just take me to work fast.
Looking at some characteristics curve (from a Q100 motor but should be about the same) reveals that it seems to loose a little power when maxed out so in that sense it is a slight "current decay":
http://www.cycloboost.com/media/doc-moteur-electrique/courbes-puissance-36v500w.pdf

Bafang BBS01: Has current decay/keep current set. This and something else makes it battery efficient it feels like. Have never had this good battery time. And I think I am not pushing any current limits here to risk a blown controller. And maybe different gearing, don't know how fast it will spin with no limits but considering above experience with cadence spin out I think it might be slower geared. Geared for torque then. Well, I'm ok with that since it is a mountain bike, it should be good for climbing and such and that it is! This bike is not made for taking me to work the fastest way. It is made for exploring the nature, with good efficiency and battery time. And it seems it excels here in fact. Oh, did I say I really think it is quiet also, nice.

another convert to the bbs01 why buy when you can build
After a few goes with the laptop you hit the sweet spot and stop adjusting the software and just enjoy the ride
The usb cable is an essential item as the stock programs are so varied and mostly disappointing have fitted three now all from the same supplier all had different programme values .

yes, more fun to build!
But this varying programs is bad. Imagine if someone buy it that is not eager to tinker with things. Then just fit the motor and use stock programming. If bad luck it can obviously be a lesser experience. Result is person don't like Bafang and/or ebikes.

But I guess people buying the conversion kit is the kind of person that are more than willing to tinker with it

At 36.9 what does you bms cut off at and did the budget battery sag

I got that number when plugging in the charger (it has a display), so it is like "resting voltage" of the cells. Have no idea what the BMS low cut off is set to but it could be 32V like the controller. Have not used it so consistent so I can say anything about sag. And have not drained battery more than half yet either. It is difficult to say on this bike under these riding conditions since it varies so much. I will not use it on this road commute way which I have ridden thousands of times with my other bike and know every turn, hill and bump and can easy sense some abnormality. But I will try tomorrow a last time with new crank arms.

 

[peter.c]

Your post about this build is all about the steep leaning curve and problem solving that we have experienced. with bbs01 self builds, I cannot imagine how my builds have gone with out this forum .Your above comments about your commuter bike and hub will be a good comparison to the mid drive

 

[Deere John]

Ok, so today I took the Bafang-bike and road commute way. This uphill that took 3:06 before took now only 2:52! (compared to 2:28 with hub drive bike). And overall time was more ok now. It starts to feel good now. I let these settings be for a while and getting to know the bike and everything.

One thing only, it still feels like it stops assisting sometimes when I come into a segment where I want extra speed, like in the start of an uphill or something. Can't explain it better. It might be that it spins out and can't assist anymore, like I wrote before. My hub drive bike would just have keeped pushing all the way but this bike don't. This is one of the things I must gain some more experience from before starting to tinker again

Also, this crank arm, I actually used bikes stock crank arms for now, until I get the new left one. I ordered a completely regular left crank arm from unknown manufacturer, but 170mm and 45-degree turned hole so it will fit. Stock crank set though, the right is merged with x3 chain rings though. But it fits, just barely but still. It doesn't look nice, at all but, it will do for a few days. This might be a feature though, four speed BBS01-drive!!

 

[Deere John]

...ok, for a final build-post. I have now replaced Bafang left crank-arm with a completely regular crank arm. You just have to make sure it is 45-degree turned hole and 170mm long.



Was a little offset this, as they are. But in gloss finnish, well, whatever, no one except me will notice that Even though it was the cheapest I could find it still feels better than Bafang.



So, this is the result. Got really good! It is now enough distance to the frame for some movement.

 

[anotherkiwi]

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-steps-crank-set-fc-e6000-without-chainring-531464

Otherwise you have nice Miranda cranks for between 50€ and 60€

 

[Deere John]

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-steps-crank-set-fc-e6000-without-chainring-531464

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-steps-crank-set-fc-e6000-without-chainring-531464they look nice, would be a good second pair if the first ones brake or wear out. Is the right zero offset?

Otherwise you have nice Miranda cranks for between 50€ and 60€

yes, have bought from them before. There you can choose offset, style, finish and get what you want. Really great, a little expensive but worth it if you need it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

they look nice, would be a good second pair if the first ones brake or wear out. Is the right zero offset?

I am not sure but I narrowed my Q factor by about 2.5 cm compared with the ones that came with the GSM.

 

[Deere John]

Things have now started to settle here. And my girlfriend borrowed the bike a few times and then she wanted exactly the same. So I built another one, almost the same but slightly simplier setup.


Did some more program tweaking and have now changed a few more parameters, much better now.

 

[tommie]

you`re operating on just 3 PAS levels 50/85/100? Can`t be that smooth of a transition.

why not go to 5 or even 9 ?

and try increasing your `Keep Current` to 80-90% instead of 60

 

[Deere John]

you`re operating on just 3 PAS levels 50/85/100? Can`t be that smooth of a transition.

why not go to 5 or even 9 ?

I try have three usable settings only, less is more 5 might be ok, but can't understand why someone wants 9? I pick one for the style of riding I will do and then let it be. Maybe that's wrong way of doing it? You are talking about transition, as if you use them as gears or something. I don't wanna change assist level so often also because my new C963 display that is not as intuitive to change as you go.

and try increasing your `Keep Current` to 80-90% instead of 60

ok, could that be better perhaps. I have some issues with loosing momentum when I let of the pedalling for a second, to take a tight turn or something. Then it feels like hitting a wall when the motor doesn't keep up when assisting again. Might need to increase this parameter a little more. Will try that.

 

[Nealh]

With 9 assist levels you can as Kirstin has done and I have also done, have two different performance motors from one. Set the first 4 or 5 pas levels for low range torque and fast speed ideal for flat terrain riding then set the remainder for high torque low speed climbing range.

As I ride the 18 odd miles to N or S/down's conserving battery mah is ideal for when I need them for inclines. The nice bit about BBS is you can set them to anything that suits your needs and don' have to have the standard 1 - 9 settings.

 

[Deere John]

Yes, I'll try fiddling with PAS levels a little more, and boost the Level 9 a little so it feels like some point using the lower ones

I guess I can only use up to 5 levels on the C963 display though. But that would be enough for me now. Otherwise I can't remember how they are programmed

 

[Nealh]

Set the last 4 or 5 pas levels for high torque/hill climbing.
Set % limit (Amps) all to 100% & vary the % speed from 20 - 50 or 60 (if you set this too high you lose the torque effect).
Then in the lower pas levels set for low torque but high speed for flat terrain.
Vary the % limit (Amps) from 20 - 70 or even 80 & set all % speed to 100.
In this way you can have two different set ups with one motor depending on the terrain you are riding.
For the BBS01 it can give you a few more options .