Two boys die in "ebike" accident: Cardiff riot broke out after 'police prevented parents seeing fatal crash victims', close relative says

[saneagle]

You can try to make a comparison, but it will make you look foolish.

Let's look at the kind of person Andrew Tate is:

Andrew Tate says women belong in the home, can’t drive, and are a man’s property.

He also thinks rape victims must “bear responsibility” for their attacks and dates women aged 18–19 because he can “make an imprint” on them, according to videos posted online.

In other clips, the British-American kickboxer – who poses with fast cars, guns and portrays himself as a cigar-smoking playboy – talks about hitting and choking women, trashing their belongings and stopping them from going out.

“It’s bang out the machete, boom in her face and grip her by the neck. Shut up bitch,” he says in one video, acting out how he’d attack a woman if she accused him of cheating. In another, he describes throwing a woman’s things out of the window. In a third, he calls an ex-girlfriend who accused him of hitting her – an allegation he denies – a “dumb hoe”.

Tate’s views have been described as extreme misogyny by domestic abuse charities, capable of radicalising men and boys to commit harm offline.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star

Can you honestly believe this is preaching nothing but good? Such things that Andrew Tate comes out with are completely against the teachings of Jesus and so there is no comparison.

Didn't Jesus say similar things?
And your doing what other guys have done in this thread. You've chosen how you want to see things, then adjusted the facts away from reality to suit the way you want. How much time did you spend with Andrew Tate to form that opinion?

 

[guerney]

Police arrest 11 more people over Cardiff riots sparked by deaths of two teenage boys killed in electric bike crash - bringing the total to 20

• Seventeen males and three females aged between 14 and 36 have been arrested

" The watchdog is also considering whether the police officers' actions in the van constituted a pursuit, and whether the interaction between the officers and the boys was 'reported appropriately by the officers prior to and following the collision'. "

Cardiff riots: Police arrest 11 more people bringing number to 20

It brings the total number of people arrested over the riots in Ely, Cardiff, to 20, which followed the death of Kyrees Sullivan, 16, and Harvey Evans, 15, on May 22, after they crashed on a Sur-Ron electric bike.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jimriley]

If...if...if...if...if...if
You can justify anything with 'if' but of course none if these imagined examples have happened, so its pointless bringing them into it.


Nonsense, the context of that comment was clearly about weak sensibilities.

OCD r us! Of course most people can hypothesise if they wish. I can ask our faux anarchist to clarify his position if I wish.

 

[WheezyRider]

Didn't Jesus say similar things?
And your doing what other guys have done in this thread. You've chosen how you want to see things, then adjusted the facts away from reality to suit the way you want. How much time did you spend with Andrew Tate to form that opinion?

Absolutely not! If you had read what He had said you would know that. But instead you make a fool of yourself by comparing Jesus, someone you obviously know nothing about to someone who is clearly a nasty piece of work.

I have never met Andrew Tate, but I have seen enough of the kind of toxic nonsense he has published of himself in videos on social media etc. He has not apologised for any of this, or even said "it was all fake, that wasn't me, I'm not like that, I don't believe people should act that way". So I can only conclude that that is the kind of person he wants to be seen as and a form of behaviour he believes to be appropriate in the 21st century.

By the nonsense you have posted in this thread you have completely undermined your credibility.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Yes, including you to suit for own narrative.




?? It's shown on multiple videos linked to in this thread that the cops were following/chasing/pursing the boys, just because the cops weren't directly behind the boys when they crashed as the boys had just taken evasive action through bollards does not mean the cops weren't on their back.

It is the primary function of the police to follow wrongdoers so that their wrongdoing mularky can be brought to an end. Generally speaking, they do this responsibly and I have seen absolutely no evidence anywhere that this is not what was done.

It is ASTOUNDING to me to find adults on a responsible electric bike forum trying to portray the police as being somehow wrong, having spotted lawbreaking, by following at a sensible distance, two low life yobbos, riding on an unregistered, electric motorcycle in contravention of many driving laws.....

What is going on between the ears of these apologists for yob lawbreaking? I am absolutely convinced that the police followed these boys at a safe distance and without 'chasing' them. Furthermore, I am absolutely convinced that when the boys crashed, the nearest police vehicle was about half a mile away. They drove into a lamp post,because they were driving at excessive speed, untrained, unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered, on an illegal, electric motorbike, and in contravention of the law, designed specifically to save the life of motorcyclists, they were not wearing any kind of helmets. This waste of life is ABSOLUTELY 100% due to their own stupid, lawless behaviour. Had they been playing football in the local park, they would be enjoying this lovely weather and their parents would not be bereaved. No one is to blame but them, and possibly the adults in their lives who bought the machine they were riding, and very very likely,parents who did a woeful job of bringing them up.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I agree with a great deal, most all, of what you have said.

However, they were children, in which case some or most or all of the responsibilty should be directed towards the 'adults' who provided the (alledged illegal) bike and apparently intended and allowed them to ride the streets on it.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Didn't Jesus say similar things?
And your doing what other guys have done in this thread. You've chosen how you want to see things, then adjusted the facts away from reality to suit the way you want. How much time did you spend with Andrew Tate to form that opinion?

I think he has already pointed out that Jesus said things entirely at odds with the attitudes Tait has recommended. The fact that in both cases the individuals had followers and were arrested does not in anyway mean they taught the same kinds of ethics. It is difficult to imagine why anyone would draw such a conclusion - if they knew anything about the people concerned. How does Jesus' telling people to 'turn the other cheek' when attacked, 'Say good things about those who abuse you', 'Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you', tally up with Tait's quoted suggestions about smacking the 'hoe' in the mouth when she questions his infidelity?

Your remarks comparing these two individuals are ludicrous.

Full disclosure: I am not religious in the least.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

I agree with a great deal, most all, of what you have said.

However, they were children, in which case some or most or all of the responsibilty should be directed towards the 'adults' who provided the (alledged illegal) bike and apparently intended and allowed them to ride the streets on it.

Yes - while some allowance should be made for their lack of maturity, they were not five or six years old. I believe that they were fifteen and sixteen years old. I absolutely agree that the adults who dragged them up are very seriously at fault.

Even when making allowance for their youthfulness, I don't forget the mayhem that youth offenders cause in many of our cities and villages. They ARE responsible for what they do and although in many cases the law enforcement arrangements try to straighten them out, they are generally unsuccessful and many go on to become career criminals.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Wow, you really are Mr Dail Mail personified....nothing like throwing in a bit of homophobia to make your point...

What 'homophobia'?

Do you mean the term 'limp wristed'?

The sentence reads: "The limp wristed, permissive response to law breaking yobs demanded by many in this thread disgusts me."

This clearly refers to permissive, soft response to law breaking. The inference you draw is ridiculous. There are plenty of people of a homosexual disposition who are in favour of a proper response to law breaking yobs.

 

[Az.]

This is basically the teachings of the prophet Andrew Tate.

And he is a prophet of which god exactly?

 

[flecc]

However, they were children, in which case some or most or all of the responsibilty should be directed towards the 'adults' who provided the (alledged illegal) bike and apparently intended and allowed them to ride the streets on it.

While I agree with your sentiment, they were NOT children in law and that description is too often used to excuse bad behaviour. At 15 and 16 years old respectively they were legally young persons with extensive responsibilities.**

In British law “young person” means a person who has attained the age of fourteen and is under the age of eighteen years. That is why there is marked increase in criminal responsibility and penalties at 14 years old, and corresponding concessions like the 14 years minimum age to ride a pedelec.

Indeed, up until 27th February this year, 16 year olds could marry anyone over 16 with parental permission and that law was only changed then to deal with forced arranged marriages within the historically immigrant communities.

And at 16 years one can join the British army as a soldier with an application to do so accepted from 15 years and 7 months. Although not allowed to fight on the front line at 16, many have previously fought and even died at 17 years old.

All of which makes the notion that 15 and 16 year olds are children misguided at least.

As someone who started full time employment at 14 years old and passed my full motorcycle driving test the minimum two weeks after my 16th birthday, I would have been very offended if told I was a child at those ages.

** Children and Young Persons Act, 1933
.

 

[portals]

As a civilised society we are supposed to evolve and make the place a better for all

Successive UK Governments have policy that attempts to keep kids in education until at least 18yrs so the next generation are educated and skilled to compete globally. However from what you say it sounds like you would you still have children going up chimneys, working in factories or poor houses.

BTW WTF were you doing at 14, chimneys or bins?

 

[soundwave]

all the kids and 20 year olds i speak to are mostly brain dead brain washed tax slaves the new guy at the local shop cant even count coins like wtf

when i was 14 i was selling crack had blocks of it the size of house bricks it went that fast and i got paid way more than a just eat rider today

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Cops should be given tanks to flatten bollards and children with. It's a small price to pay for law and order.

I never understand this type of viewpoint. It is often innocent children who are the victim of criminal children. This goes all the way from minor crimes all the way up to the Bulgar case. In this instance they killed themselves but it so easily have been a child in a push chair, elderly pedestrian or anyone else for that matter who were killed when they lost control. The fact is we have become far too soft on criminals hence why even young boys feel ok to take an illegal vehicle on the road and risk the lives of others because its something they wanted to do.

Your mentality is part of the problem. The fact you cannot be rational in this situation and put innocent lives above that of criminals is part of the issue. We need to focus a lot more anger on criminals. That in no way is a defence of the some of the criminal police we have heard about in recent news stories but the vast majority of the Police are doing a difficult job as well as they can and I personally support them.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

While I agree with your sentiment, they were NOT children in law and that description is too often used to excuse bad behaviour. At 15 and 16 years old respectively they were legally young persons with extensive responsibilities.**

In British law “young person” means a person who has attained the age of fourteen and is under the age of eighteen years. That is why there is marked increase in criminal responsibility and penalties at 14 years old, and corresponding concessions like the 14 years minimum age to ride a pedelec.

Indeed, up until 27th February this year, 16 year olds could marry anyone over 16 with parental permission and that law was only changed then to deal with forced arranged marriages within the historically immigrant communities.

And at 16 years one can join the British army as a soldier with an application to do so accepted from 15 years and 7 months. Although not allowed to fight on the front line at 16, many have previously fought and even died at 17 years old.

All of which makes the notion that 15 and 16 year olds are children misguided at least.

As someone who started full time employment at 14 years old and passed my full motorcycle driving test the minimum two weeks after my 16th birthday, I would have been very offended if told I was a child at those ages.

** Children and Young Persons Act, 1933
.

All good and true. I am put in mind of the many 15 and 16 year old lads who served in the Merchant Navy during the Arctic convoys in WW2. Many of these were torpedoed in the North Atlantic.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

As a civilised society we are supposed to evolve and make the place a better for all

Successive UK Governments have policy that attempts to keep kids in education until at least 18yrs so the next generation are educated and skilled to compete globally. However from what you say it sounds like you would you still have children going up chimneys, working in factories or poor houses.

BTW WTF were you doing at 14, chimneys or bins?

He said nothing of the sort. You seem to have a talent for misunderstanding what people say. You misinterpreted an earlier remark of mine and imputed attitudes I do not have, and now you do the same with the post by Fleck. Perhaps it would help if you read and understood what contributors are saying before jumping in with your own assumptions, and suggesting things they have not said, such as that the poster favours sending children up chimneys. Maybe your lack of restraint is the result of being able to tolerate high levels of embarrassment. Some people don't care about looking ridiculous. This may be the result of frontal lobe damage caused by a bang on the head without a helmet.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

I never understand this type of viewpoint. It is often innocent children who are the victim of criminal children. This goes all the way from minor crimes all the way up to the Bulgar case. In this instance they killed themselves but it so easily have been a child in a push chair, elderly pedestrian or anyone else for that matter who were killed when they lost control. The fact is we have become far too soft on criminals hence why even young boys feel ok to take an illegal vehicle on the road and risk the lives of others because its something they wanted to do.

Your mentality is part of the problem. The fact you cannot be rational in this situation and put innocent lives above that of criminals is part of the issue. We need to focus a lot more anger on criminals. That in no way is a defence of the some of the criminal police we have heard about in recent news stories but the vast majority of the Police are doing a difficult job as well as they can and I personally support them.

Well said. The predatory beasts who victimise the rest of society victimise ALL of society and probably in the case of youth crime, the most victimised by them, are other young people.

 

[flecc]

BTW WTF were you doing at 14, chimneys or bins?

I was an apprentice motor cycle mechanic. Times change and 73 years ago that was not as unusual as you seem to think. Being shortly after WW2 with a desperate shortage of all motor vehicles we supplemented with selling, fitting and servicing assist motors for bicycles, starting my long term interest in that subject.

And as for working at an early age, at 11 years old I had three part time jobs and was working and schooling a 13 hour day Mondays to Friday and 11 hours Saturday, paying half of my earnings to my parents to help with my keep in those impoverished times.

Of course I didn't have the time to be either a vandal or a hooligan, but I did know the value of working hard and successfully. So much so that I retired just into my fifties and have enjoyed 33 years of affluent retirement so far, buying and owning six new cars during that time and currently with a £30K electric car.

Have you been or will you be as successful?
.

 

[lenny]

Beat your kids. It will cost me less.

 

[flecc]

A meaningless graph without a full understanding of how the public and politicians have caused the growth, so some explanation is called for:

1) The sharp dip in the 1910s was caused by WW1.

2) The plateau following extending into the 1940s caused by the Great Depression and WW2.

3) The growth from the late 1940s to 1990 has three parts:

a) First the introduction of cannabis use by the West Indian population.

b) The incredible stupidity of government in creating an illegal trade in heroin where there had been none before.

c) The huge growth in motor vehicle numbers and the diverse serious offending that created.

4) The very rapid growth from 1990 into the 2010s was created by the obsession with sex crimes and the creation of specialist police squads to pursue historic offences. Amplified by a large and continuous campaign to get victims to come forward.

5) The dip from the 2010s created as the courts and Home Office realised the pointlessness of number 4 above and stopped giving custodial prison sentences except in a minority of cases.

In other words, the graph doesn't so much reflect increases in crime so much as an increase in the things and opportunities that people could get sentenced for.
.