This mornings Sunday Times

[Deleted member 4366]

On a Kalkhoff bike that weights an average of 23-25kg probably, it's kinda of difficult to go much faster than the electric assistance cut-off, which is at 17mph.

Therefore, an electric bike on the flat going at 25mph is a bit suspicious...

I know a few forum members who were able to "adjust" their Kalkhoffs to go a lot faster than 17 mph.

Kalkhoff, Bosch or whatever legal crank-drive you derestrict, the most you'll get at the back wheel is about 500w, which is enough to propel you to maybe 25mph on the flat without help from the wind. To get 30 mph, you need to add another 500w yourself, which would, of course, get you to 25mph without assistance. In other words, derestricting a legal bike is not that significant. Despite the various boasts from forum members, an average unfit person in normal clothing will struggle for anything more than 20 mph on a derestricted bike.

Club cyclists ride around a lot faster than people with derestricted Bosch bikes, and nobody cares, so it can't be the speed that's the issue.

What that article in the paper is highlighting is the bikes typically with big DD motors running at well over 1kw, which are effectively electric mopeds like what Cwah used to use; however, in reality, they're not that common. I guess that's why they could only find a video from more than two years ago as an example.

Having found an example of a relatively rare problem, then all the regular bleaters join in and add their agendas to try and make it into something that it isn't.

 

[soundwave]

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The highest power it showed was 650w from the battery. Say 80% motor efficiency, 95% controller/wiring efficiency and 95% drive train efficiency means 469 watts of motive power. A normally fit human can reach about 800 watts for a short time and a good club cyclist can go over 1000w.

 

[soundwave]

i must be fit then if i can get it over 30 fkn batt dont last long tho i can drain it in a hour

 

[anotherkiwi]

A normally fit human can reach about 800 watts for a short time and a good club cyclist can go over 1000w.

I pointed that out to Eddie that on Strava it showed he was peaking at over 1000 W on his 2016 Switzerland jaunt. Strong young man! Even if the motor is providing 500+ of those Watts his contribution is substantial.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Eddie rides regularly, so he must be fitter than your average ebiker.

Making 500w is not a problem for many of us. It's sustaining it that's the problem. I have a turbo-trainer with a wattmeter on it. After a bit of practice, I can sustain 200w for an hour with one minute bursts to 400w every 10 minutes.

 

[D8ve]

It's not weight that limits on the flat. It's air resistance.
My recumbent is well over 20kg but at over 50years old and 100kg I can still cruse at 18 mph and often around 20. Give me a little slope and I either do 25 or 15 mph. With unrestricted help it would be near 30 on the flat.

 

[Nealh]

My bees love Him balsam, a few years ago the conditions were perfect and after my honey crop one August, I had a 2nd very good crop by end of September.

 

[Ted B.]

Unfortunately you would have to get the e-bike type approved which would require amendments to the bike. Hence why no-one has registered them, it is not an easy process. Works okay for self builds but not speed pedelecs built by manufacturers.

Are you saying that it's very hard to get an S-pedelec registered in the UK, like a Kalkhoff bike purchased from 50 Cycles (models like a Integral S11 or Endeavour S11)?

They surely don't seem to make an issue of it, and are not telling their customers that it would be a hard and complex process to make their 350w impulse speed ebikes, with assistance up to 28mph, legal in the UK...

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Are you saying that it's very hard to get an S-pedelec registered in the UK, like a Kalkhoff bike purchased from 50 Cycles (models like a Integral S11 or Endeavour S11)?

They surely don't seem to make an issue of it, and are not telling their customers that it would be a hard and complex process to make their 350w impulse speed ebikes, with assistance up to 28mph, legal in the UK...

Now I learnt something new this week on this.

According to the gent who wrote that piece (Mark Hookham) whilst doing his research he'd spoken to a number of people including the DVLA who told him they'd registered 750 eBikes for use on the roads. Now I tried to get a bit more detail out of him about what this actually meant, but he didn't really know. His understanding was that 750 sPedelec's had been registered with the DVLA, I don't think it was that simple so I'm trying to find out.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

They surely don't seem to make an issue of it, and are not telling their customers that it would be a hard and complex process to make their 350w impulse speed ebikes, with assistance up to 28mph, legal in the UK...[/QUOTE]

The issue there is currently no separate speed pedelec category at the DVLA like some other countries. Therefore you have to register it as a moped and modify accordingly. I have found no evidence that is easy and know some suppliers who have tried. I wish it was easy to register then people could ride them legally on the road without lots of modifications albeit with appropriate moped licence (not required for some as depends when you passed your driving test). Would love someone to prove otherwise but have yet to see good evidence.

 

[flecc]

The issue there is currently no separate speed pedelec category at the DVLA like some other countries. Therefore you have to register it as a moped and modify accordingly. - - - - albeit with appropriate moped licence

Unfortunately even if the DfT relent and we get the S class in the UK, it looks like it will still mean a driving licence is needed on the latest evidence.

In addition to the P category licence for mopeds up to 31 mph (50kph), they've now added the category AM driving licence for up to 28 mph (45kph) which is the S class speed range.

Plus category Q for up to 15.5 mph with up to 1000 watts, which is the old Low Powered Moped class, now called L1e-A.

This link refers
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[Kudoscycles]

If you want speed,why not the FEDDZ 45,it has type approval so easily registered as a light moped.
110km range
40,5 Ah battery
33 kg weight
45kmh limited max speed
price..euro 4315.00 (not much more than an illegal S-class)

The FEDDZ is quite a bit heavier than most electric bikes, weighing in at 72lbs (33kg), however, that makes it an absolute lightweight compared with traditional mopeds, which weigh 120-140lbs, or other electric mopeds like the Bolt M-1, which also weighs 140lbs.

How strong is the FEDDZ in the power department? Again, it’s somewhere in between an electric bike and an electric moped, offering 2,000W of nominal/sustained power and 4,000W of peak power, which is less than the 5.5kW that the Bolt M-1 puts out, but if more than 5X more powerful than the average electric bicycle.

Another place where the FEDDZ shines is range. Since the designers didn’t have to worry as much about keeping the weight down, they were able to fit some gigantic batteries on the bike, which range from 1.6kWh to 2.1kWh and provide 60-100 miles of range depending on which battery option you select. Also, you have the choice of either a 25kph model or a 45kph model, which is quite useful if you happen to live in a place that restricts your speed to 25kph, however, we imagine that most bikes that FEDDZ sells will be of the 45kph variety, as 25kph is simply too slow to get around most cities.

What I love most about the FEDDZ is its design. Its frame is aggressive and modern, and the bike has a full suspension to soak up road bumps as well as enough power to climb any hill. Realistically, this bike could probably exceed 30MPH if it weren’t electronically limited due to regulatory considerations, however, in many places 28MPH (45KPH) is quick enough to get where you need to go with time to spare.

This seems a much more sensible way to go than an illegal S-class and its easily registered.
Perhaps someone will put up a photo please.
KudosDave

 

[Smart eBiker]

I guess you would need number plate and if no full motorcycle licence L plates as well as a legal crash helmet, all of this would make it look like a Christmas tree and slow you down, all a bit too much hassle I think.

The only option is for a new specific Pedelec law up to a more reasonable speed with perhaps restrictions on where you can cycle with it so as not to scare or kill pedestrians on tow paths e.t.c.

The other concern is like boats at the moment, any fool can buy one with a huge engine and bomb about oblivious to any maritime laws causing mayhem and damage, even risk of death speeding through swim zones, so the thought of easing the purchase of extra fast cycles for anyone fills me with fear, especially mums with buggies being buzzed by idiots!

BUT this looks cool

 

[craiggor]

And a Kalkhoff with a number plate holder.Both bikes only have one mirror.L1e-b need two,the Kalkhoff has no indicators must be a L1e-a.

 

[craiggor]

And a Kalkhoff with a number plate holder.

Both bikes only have one mirror.L1e-b need two,the Kalkhoff has no indicators must be a L1e-a.

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

What about the FEDDZ - - - - - This seems a much more sensible way to go than an illegal S-class and its easily registered.

Trouble is that the demand is for a bicycle that can be pedalled as well but having the 28 mph capability. Hence the S class existence, despite capable machines like the FEDDZ.

There'll never be any peace on this subject until the DfT permit the S class here in the UK.

Even then many will be unhappy that we alone in Europe will require a driving licence to ride the S class.
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[E-Wheels]

Here you go

 

[Kudoscycles]

I guess you would need number plate and if no full motorcycle licence L plates as well as a legal crash helmet, all of this would make it look like a Christmas tree and slow you down, all a bit too much hassle I think.

The only option is for a new specific Pedelec law up to a more reasonable speed with perhaps restrictions on where you can cycle with it so as not to scare or kill pedestrians on tow paths e.t.c.

The other concern is like boats at the moment, any fool can buy one with a huge engine and bomb about oblivious to any maritime laws causing mayhem and damage, even risk of death speeding through swim zones, so the thought of easing the purchase of extra fast cycles for anyone fills me with fear, especially mums with buggies being buzzed by idiots!

BUT this looks cool

Actually the ease with which you can operate a powerful boat is only in this country....abroad you have to have a Certificate of Competency,they will accept a Yachtmaster certificate up to 105 tons,after that you need a captains ticket....we are somewhat lax in this country,the thought of some lottery winner buying a 50 knot Sunseeker and tearing along a crowded beach is horrible,but it happens.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

Even then many will be unhappy that we alone in Europe will require a driving licence to ride the S class.
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you left the door wide open for a smart alec Brexit comment on that but I'll be kind and leave it there