This mornings Sunday Times

[Gubbins]

True of so many subjects in the forum though, there's only so much can be said about pedelecs, so the hardy annuals come back time and time again.
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More like Japanese knotweed..

 

[flecc]

More like Japanese knotweed..

Increased assist speed more like Japanese knotweed?

Careful, with invasive species comparisons for repetitive subjects it could end up looking like Gardener's Question Time in here.

Helmet wearing like Himalayan Balsam.

Twistgrip throttle control like Rhododendron.
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[Gubbins]

Increased assist speed more like Japanese knotweed?

Careful, with invasive species comparisons for repetitive subjects it could end up looking like Gardener's Question Time in here.

Helmet wearing like Himalayan Balsam.

Twistgrip throttle control like Rhododendron.
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Well you must admit that just about every thread eventually gets hijacked with this subject in one form or another..

 

[flecc]

Well you must admit that just about every thread eventually gets hijacked with this subject in one form or another..

True, but probably inevitable, since the assist speed limit is unique to pedelecs and the very essence of what they are, limited assistance for cycling.
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[Gubbins]

I read an interesting couple of reports on the Sunday paper thing which shows differing views.. but most didn't understand the reasoning when 28 mph isn't an illegal speed anyway so what's the problem?
And we must bear in mind that the secret shopers will have been trying their best to weedle a story out of the shop assistants and the comments reported will have been enhanced somewhat

 

[flecc]

most didn't understand the reasoning when 28 mph isn't an illegal speed anyway so what's the problem?

The legislators appear to be bipolar on this subject:

On the one hand they understandably believe that anything motorised and capable of over natural human speed should be subject to licencing controls.

On the other hand they want to treat pedelecs as bicycles, as if they weren't motorised.

So they deal with this conflict by restricting pedelecs to notional cycling speeds and powers, a sort of kidology that it's what an average cyclist can do anyway so they can pretend it's not a motor vehicle.

Little wonder the public find it confusing.
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[Gubbins]

One common theme is that ebikes should be outlawed on the basis of if you can't do it without help you shouldn't do it at all.
(Been reading some road bike forums)

 

[Timbo]

I'm sure this point has been made on the thread, but I've missed it. The media seem to think that 'legal' pedelecs are limited to 15 mph, but no-one seems to have told them that pedelecs have no upper speed limit beyond that applying on the stretch of road - it's simply that power assistance stops at that speed. That sort of mis-information has the potential to cause trouble....

 

[flecc]

One common theme is that ebikes should be outlawed on the basis of if you can't do it without help you shouldn't do it at all.
(Been reading some road bike forums)

Yes, I've often seen those comments too. Once again as I posted above we can blame the legislators. Not classifying EAPCs (pedelecs) as a form of motor vehicle and regarding them as still being bicycles set the scene for this.

Those same cyclists didn't react similarly to the old autocycles, or the early petrol powered mopeds with pedals, or even the add-on petrol motors for bicycles. That was because all those were registered and plated as motor vehicles.

If there was registration with a small rear number plate for pedelecs, even with no other restrictions, all the cyclist complaints would disappear.
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[flecc]

I'm sure this point has been made on the thread, but I've missed it. The media seem to think that 'legal' pedelecs are limited to 15 mph, but no-one seems to have told them that pedelecs have no upper speed limit beyond that applying on the stretch of road - it's simply that power assistance stops at that speed. That sort of mis-information has the potential to cause trouble....

Yes, the point has been made earlier that pedelecs have no speed limit, only an assist limit.
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[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I'm sure this point has been made on the thread, but I've missed it. The media seem to think that 'legal' pedelecs are limited to 15 mph, but no-one seems to have told them that pedelecs have no upper speed limit beyond that applying on the stretch of road - it's simply that power assistance stops at that speed. That sort of mis-information has the potential to cause trouble....

I can promise you I spent close to an hour on the phone to the Sunday Times before they wrote this piece. I am actually quoted, and I explained again and again to them that the details are important. They seem to have missed lots of the important bits in an attempt to get to a word limit.

 

[Gubbins]

Just reading the daily mails offering and to the uninitiated they make it sound like these bikes can be driven at 30mph

 

[flecc]

Just reading the daily mails offering and to the uninitiated they make it sound like these bikes can be driven at 30mph

And it's the truth. They are referring to dongles and saying as much, which double the crank bikes assist speed limit and will assist to 30 mph and beyond.

I don't like the Daily Mail, but we shouldn't blame them for reporting what is our fault, the many pedelecers using dongles.

If we all comply with the law, this reporting will disappear.

Here's the link to the Daily Mail story.
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[Gubbins]

So now when I stop for a chat I won't be asked is it as good as a gtech.. it will be will it do 30mph....

 

[Timbo]

.... double the crank bikes assist speed limit and will assist to 30 mph and beyond.

A technical question....I normally manage over 20mph on my regular rides, but downhill, and with my gearing, pedalling doesn't help, so no assistance either. The Bosch system 'rewards' me by multiplying the effort I'm putting in. In order to reach 30mph or beyond, a similar system must have some quite high gearing to register any crank effort for assistance - or are such bikes throttle-controlled or simply registering a cadence, any cadence?

 

[soundwave]

i have 10t at the rear and 18t at the front and can go faster than 30mph for short bursts or keep it at 28mph with a bit of effort.

 

[Timbo]

i have 10t at the rear and 18t at the front and can go faster than 30mph for short bursts or keep it at 28mph with a bit of effort.

Yup - that would work. I've 12T at the back and a 2.5 x internally geared up 15T sprocket. As with my previous ebike, I'm experimentally raising the front gearing to 17T or 19T (I never use the lower 3 gears on the cassette) so I'll be able to join the elite speedsters. However, mine's a touring Cube, so a dongle on the 'vanilla' bike probably wouldn't get me above 30 mph. At 67, I'm too scared, anyway......

 

[anotherkiwi]

One common theme is that ebikes should be outlawed on the basis of if you can't do it without help you shouldn't do it at all.
(Been reading some road bike forums)

Common sense isn't equally distributed.

- I can't ride a bike with electric assistance to the shops then back again with a 30 kg trailer full of food? Pray tell me why.
- I can't ride my bike to the station at the hour of my choice? No I have to hang about at the bus station and go when they decide I can.
- I can't go out wearing the clothes and shoes I want? No if you aren't wearing lycra it isn't "real" cycling, oh and shave your legs for an extra 100th of a mph.

Bunch of w.nkers!

 

[anotherkiwi]

I now have a wonderful torque simulation controller making my GSM motor a pure dream to ride within the legal assistance limits. For a couple of weeks however I was riding unrestricted and reaching 45 km/h on the flat with ease (often out accelerating cars). Going that fast on a bicycle is not without certain pleasures, but:

- This bike does weigh well in excess of 20 kg, it has big fat tyres, suspension and hydraulic braking so it is closer to the original Mobylette mopeds than a road bicycle.
- At no point did I feel unsafe (for myself and for others).
- This bike is much bigger than my first and as such despite having larger easier rolling wheels it tops out at just over 60 km/h (pedaling up to 61.7 km/h in top gear - 46:11 at cadence over 100) because of air resistance despite all my efforts of making myself as tiny and slippery as possible. Again at that speed it is much more comfortable and safe feeling than my previous tiny steed.
- Range... At those speeds the motor burns through the Wh almost dividing the range of my li-ion battery by 2!

I love going "fast" but I also love going far, the experience was interesting but I have no regrets being limited in assistance to 25 km/h. This bike rolls much easier than the first on so I am often at 28-32 km/h on pedal power alone anyway. Air resistance is very noticeable after 40 km/h with a "wall" at about 47 km/h.

 

[Tomtomato]

On a Kalkhoff bike that weights an average of 23-25kg probably, it's kinda difficult to go much faster than the electric assistance cut-off, which is at 17mph.

Therefore, an electric bike on the flat going at 25mph is a bit suspicious...