This mornings Sunday Times

[Deleted member 4366]

Regardless of whether the Sunday Times or anyone else having clear evidence, we know they're out there because there's many sellers selling the stuff, and if you try to order one yourself, they're always waiting for the next delivery because they've sold out. Having said that, I've never seen one come flying past me during the last 6 years when I've been out and about on my bikes.

I guess nobody will do much about it until we have all the legislation and procedures in place to allow people to get them easily and cheaply registered or otherwise allowed.

Personally, I don't see it as any more of a problem than an annoying loose end that needs tying down. It will be sorted out soon. No need for the usual hysteria. It's been going on since before my involvement with electric bikes and nobody has died, while at the same time people have died playing golf and football. In fact, I would guess that people have died on their legal electric bikes from heart attacks that might otherwise still be alive if they had been riding riding a more powerful one.

 

[Kuorider]

Because the motor was audibly active, and the pedalling was not strenuous.

Thing is Will, that's only your opinion, my motor whirrs and I pedal easily my 11t top gear at 20mph. Strenuous is relative, the idea that he was 'not strenuous' is not measurable by any available properly calibrated equipment on which to base a prosecution. It could have been a good tailwind and a strong rider pushing a high gear. Remember the 250w is only nominal and there is no official speed limit for bikes on the road. I have often been passed by roadies doing well over 30 mph with apparently little effort on modern bikes.
There is of course the old offence of 'furious cycling' . Have there been any prosecutions for this recently?
On Cleveleys deserted prom last week, with a good stiff breeze and wearing my big jacket I saw the giddy speed of 24mph .
What we are facing is a total ban caused by chainless lash ups as seen on this forum, rattling along at 30mph with no apparent leg movement. The alternative would have to be a strict speed limit on any ebike regardless of the rider's input. This would be measurable by existing Police kit and would require only a small change in the law.
At some point some idiot will kill a child and we will all pay the price.

 

[danielrlee]

Yes, but by who?

The police, the crown prosecution, the courts and the government.

 

[LeighPing]

"Commuters have been filmed zipping along busy roads in London on battery-powered bikes that appear to be travelling faster than legal limits."

No laws have proved to have been broken. Even perceived laws.


We're both going 20 mph. Which one is breaking the law? Should it be both of us? None of us? Or, just one of us?

 

[D8ve]

Faster than the legal limit for a Pedelec. So unregistered unlicensed electric motorbikes have been seen.

By the way will anyone googling times, electric bike speed etc. Come here and read the my bike can do 30mph etc posts. A little bit of jounelistic effort and they could have a field day.

 

[Gubbins]

The police, the crown prosecution, the courts and the government.

Well as for the police. .. I occasionally come across police officers either on foot or on bicycles who don't seem to have any knowledge or interest in whether my bike is legal or not. They are very interested in the bike, especially in how fast it goes.. just like everyone else I talk to.
Come on let's be realistic.. everytime something like this pops up the usual suspects start banging on about killing someone, a child even, on an illegal bike.
More people are killed or injured on normal bikes than is ever likely on ebikes, so is that ok? Do something stupid and injure someone is ok as long as your legal!
If some dimwit wants to rock on at 30mph just let them get on with it..

 

[Will Tinker]

The morality / suitability / enforceability of the law is not what I am arguing. The point I am making is that we have a law which applies to us all. A large number of people in the UK are purchasing these vehicles and using them unlawfully. This results in articles such as the one we have seen today, which paints eBike users in a negative light.

At worst, an accident involving one of these will result in a death and there could then be potential for a further tightening of the laws concerning eBike usage. None of us want this.

 

[danielrlee]

At worst, an accident involving one of these will result in a death and there could then be potential for a further tightening of the laws concerning eBike usage. None of us want this.

This arguement makes no sense. In your example, current EPAC law would not be affected since the offending vehicle would not be an EPAC.

 

[Gubbins]

This arguement makes no sense. In your example, current EPAC law would not be affected since the offending vehicle would not be an EPAC.

I would also argue the large number comment as well..

 

[IR772]

wants to rock on at 30mph just let them get on with it..

Now who might come instantly to mind! Soundwave, very interested in your battery pack details.

 

[LeighPing]

Now who might come instantly to mind! Soundwave

He's always off road when doing it, from what I've seen.

Although, I fear that any poll vote for him to be hung, drawn and quartered, wouldn't go well for him here.

 

[Will Tinker]

Just my view guys!

(And the law, too)

Personally I think the 15.5mph limit is too low for the UK. But I think that while laws are in place we have to respect them.

Also, 'large' is subjective as a term. I would bet there are thousands sold and on the road over here (though yes, we don't know for sure).

 

[Gubbins]

I have seen youngsters careering around on the road on scramble type motorbikes without lights, plates, silencer or helmets, even riding on the footpath and these are very likely to hurt someone, so would the law tighten up on all motorcycles?
Answers on the back of a stamp please!!
I dont mean to be flippant, well, actually I do, but this doom and gloom is getting like Brexit.. And just as wrong..

 

[IR772]

He's always off road when doing it, from what I've seen.

Although, I fear that any poll vote for him to be hung, drawn and quartered, wouldn't go well for him here.

I am so sorry that my poor comprehension made it look like I was tagging Soundwave.

That is totally not what I was inferring, really sorry that it turned out to look like that. What a mistake for me to make.

Sunday Times, one of their alcoholic lazy hacks must have heard something in the pub about it, was sober enough to remember to hash something up to fill some column inches the next day.

 

[Gubbins]

I am so sorry that my poor comprehension made it look like I was tagging Soundwave.

That is totally not what I was inferring, really sorry that it turned out to look like that. What a mistake for me to make.

Sunday Times, one of their alcoholic lazy hacks must have heard something in the pub about it, was sober enough to remember to hash something up to fill some column inches the next day.

I dont think SW will be bothered.. He rides over such comments.. usually at 30mph!!

 

[LeighPing]

Soundwave's a good lad. Very informative at times too. Anyway, I have a video of a motor-bike blazing past me at the country park. Just looking for it now. I've been out filming Jet and Bruce playing at being dogs. Let me try and find that vid now..

 

[EddiePJ]

He's always off road when doing it, from what I've seen.

I don't think that Soundwave has a bad bone in his body, but he is probably one of the most irresponsible riders out there, ebike or no ebike.

You only have look at his comments, and clips highlighting recklessly riding along public canal towpaths, public bridleways, public pavements outside rows of shops, and even down the middle of one way streets in the wrong direction.

You don't need an ebike to ride with complete disregard to other road users, pedestrians or the law, but in the event of him being involved in an accident on his ebike, the finger would soon be pointed universally at all ebike riders.

 

[LeighPing]

Teddy boys, mods, rockers, the youth of today always has a recurring theme, doesn't it?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Bike Biz have enlarged on the article and James Fitzgerald of Just e-bikes has added his view in the comments. He seems to suggest that the speed e-bike customer has no problem but the retailer could be liable....I was advised by trading standards that the opposite is true,retailers could sell what they liked as long as they made it clear that these bikes can only be used on private land with the owners permission and no public access footpaths crossing that land, or for export where no restrictions apply.
As long as the retailer has made it clear then if the customer uses these bikes on the highway or cycle tracks then the customer is liable to prosecution not the retailer.If you bought a speed pedelec or dongle equipped bike and the retailer stated on the sale invoice that the bike needed to be registered to be used on the highway then it is the problem of the user should a prosecution occur,but I think all buyers of these speed pedelecs accept that.
There are pockets of these speed pedelecs,usually located near where a trader is prepared to sell them,there are a large number in the west of London and near Guildford,down here in Kent I don't think I have ever seen one.
I should emphasise that all the bikes that Kudos sell,that includes Kudos,KTM,Raleigh and Haibike are fully legal to use on the highway or cycle tracks with no registration required.
Selling these speed Pedelecs is really old news as have the fitting of speed cheating dongles,it has been flogged to death on this forum.
I suppose being put in the Sunday Times may focus the matter to the eyes of trading standards,which can only be good for the e-bike industry.
KudosDave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The morality / suitability / enforceability of the law is not what I am arguing. The point I am making is that we have a law which applies to us all. A large number of people in the UK are purchasing these vehicles and using them unlawfully. This results in articles such as the one we have seen today, which paints eBike users in a negative light.

At worst, an accident involving one of these will result in a death and there could then be potential for a further tightening of the laws concerning eBike usage. None of us want this.

Sorry Will. I don't mean this to be personal, and I don't want to pick on you, but this is exactly the hysteria that we always get. Your argument sort of sounds valid, but it's completely out of proportion. When it comes to the morality and enforceability of the law, do you worry about the type of lights on your bike? Have you never ridden on the pavement? These things along with riding bikes that go over 15.5 mph, relatively, are flysh!t compared with deaths from drunk driving, speeding, mobile phones, etc. Every day in my street, there's a couple of kids riding their 50cc and 125cc motorbikes flat out up and down the road, which bends round and has parked cars on it. I don't see anybody recording/photographing it and putting an article in a national newspaper about it.

Ever since I've been involved in this forum, people have been making the same arguments as you, so you're not alone; however, we can still happily use our ebikes and nobody has been killed.

In summary, no need to get worked up. The politicians and regulators will do something in time. In the meantime, enjoy using your bike. If you want to make a fuss about something, choose something that's worthwhile.