I totally agree with you what they don't understand is that you can get a workout just like a normal cycle but you just stay out longer .
The problem with E-bikes in the UK.
- Thread starter kingsknight
- Start date
I must admit flecc you have got me at least thinking my next car might be an electric one. I have retired and most of my journeys are fairly short ones, and as the wife also has a car we could use hers for the occasional longer drive.
The initial cost though is an issue. My last car cost £17k and I don't really want to be paying much or even any more than that when I eventually change it. Most of the new electric cars I have seen are much more expensive than that.
What are prices like for say a two year old electric? I don't need a big car as there is only me in it most of the time. My current car is a Fiesta, the 3 cylinder model with the turbo. Equivalent to 1600 cc but only 1000c.c, and gives around 50 m.p.g. (petrol).
The initial cost though is an issue. My last car cost £17k and I don't really want to be paying much or even any more than that when I eventually change it. Most of the new electric cars I have seen are much more expensive than that.
What are prices like for say a two year old electric? I don't need a big car as there is only me in it most of the time. My current car is a Fiesta, the 3 cylinder model with the turbo. Equivalent to 1600 cc but only 1000c.c, and gives around 50 m.p.g. (petrol).
I read somewhere that e-cars buck the trend regarding depreciation and it's also got me thinking. I don't want a big car and you only get big batteries in big cars and as I consider the leaf to be bigger than I would like..... hmmmm I hadn't considered hiring one for the odd long journey....
Just checked on car gurus listings:
A top of the range 2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna with around 6000 miles on the clock for £16,000 to £16,500.
A middle of the range 2017 Nissan Leaf Acenta which has almost everything on it anyway for only £15,000 with under 3000 miles on the clock.
You'll see those on page one of this link
Those were based on my postcode so enter your own for those in easy reach of you.
Ignore the very high prices for some of the 2018 models, that's shortage of supply due to the very high demand.
You can go much cheaper for older or higher mileage models, but stick to those from the last three years with the 30 kW battery since it has a longer 8 year warranty life and it's 90 miles realistic range is better than the original 24 kW one.
There's a government grant for the cost of installing a fast charging point at your own home, covering up to £500, which is normally the whole cost anyway.
P.S. You might find one so likeable that you'll have a job keeping your wife from using it. That's happened to many, their teenagers too!
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Hiring is what many do for the odd long journey. Cyclezee drives electric and I think he has hired in that way.
In the early e-car days the depreciation was horrendous. I once saw a 6 month old £27,000 one sold for £10,500 with hardly any miles on it for example. Terrifying.
But that's changed now. The initial depreciation is still high of course like all cars, and a model change like last years Leaf to this years also causes a fall, but longer term it's got much better now. That's due to the now proven very high reliability of the cars and batteries proving they're much longer lasting than was earlier thought.
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"Cheating" is nothing new - I'm sure the same was said to horseless carriage drivers!
Flecc I really like the idea of an electric car and for my purpose and mileage it would be perfect. Where I think that the major problem lies is with the recharging infrastructure. It may be very good in a city like London but out in the sticks is probably way behind.
I agree and in fact go further since it is badly organised.
There are numerous companies installing and running charging points and they have many different systems of operation. Most insist on a monthly or annual membership with a fee, which for good coverage can mean many such fees, however little they are used.
Worse still is that they secure areas, leaving no choice of which to use. For example, on a 130 mile run to my brother's in Dorset, there's a local authority run point near this end off the M25, all the motorway service station ones are run by Ecotricity, but a cluster of points in Poole at the other end are run by another company. So I need three memberships to have full cover. Also some operate via smartphone apps and they have often proved unreliable.
The most sensible is a US company which has started up with just a few points only so far, and they operate from any contactless card with no membership needed. Government should give them all a kick and insist they switch to this fully accessible method with no membership or smartphone signal access necessary. Our governments don't do sensible though.
At present I think a fully electric car is only convenient if the great majority of all return journeys can be served from one's home fast charge point. Currently that means return journeys up to around a realistic150 miles, but some of next years models will extend that to around a realistic 240 miles. That should suit the needs of the great majority.
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as usual the government has done a very poor job of coming up with a standardised system across the country. Just seems like a big free for all with no real direction. They have done the same with electric smart meters. On changing supplier it is unlikely the meter will work, They are rubbish at sorting such things out. Perhaps too many vested interests involved
I live in a rural town and would have to travel around 10 miles to the nearest filling station. The nearest public charge point for our Leaf is a mile away. Within that 10 mile radius there are 15 public charge points. Scotland seems to be reasonably well served compared to other parts of the UK.
wheeler
Seems as though the thread has been slightly detoured, but I”ll throw my thoughts in.
I have had a Nissan Leaf 24kw Tekna for over two years.
Driven about 12,000 miles in that time.
Let’s get the more contentious issues out of the way.
Range, yep about 80 miles.
Home charging is great, all this talk about filling up at a petrol station taking say 10 minutes only, yep, home charging whilst the car is not in use. You can even set the timer overnight to make use of off peak charge rates.
Yep, long distances take some planning, but most people ( not all), drive within the range most of the time.
Oil is running out.
Burning fossil fuels are bad for the environment, especially in built up areas with high population density, they are bad for us.
People say the environmental cost of an EV car is the same as a fossil fuel car.....
Taking the initial manufacturing environment cost as being about equal, the EV car can “burn” any type of electricity....nuclear, coal,gas, wind, solar, hydro .
The fossil fuel car burns oil, which uses a lot of energy just to produce. Then it is typically sent around the world in big tankers. Then it is transported to petrol stations, then it is burnt by cars.
All this energy is burnt into the environment.
So, new technology to reduce emissions need to be invested in green energy, new charge network etc, will need time to achieve.
Zero road tax, very much reduced service costs. No DMF,no particulate filter,no oil.
Longer life brakes due to regen on the EV. Virtual silent.
We get typically four miles for every one kWh of energy. One kWh is approx 16p.
Made the commitment to being “more green” a while ago.
Solar panels on the roof, plus bought a Tesla Powerwall battery to reduce the strain on the grid and cost of electricity.
Electricity is going to cost more in the future.
Won’t suit everyone, but EV cars would suit a large proportion of the population.
I have had a Nissan Leaf 24kw Tekna for over two years.
Driven about 12,000 miles in that time.
Let’s get the more contentious issues out of the way.
Range, yep about 80 miles.
Home charging is great, all this talk about filling up at a petrol station taking say 10 minutes only, yep, home charging whilst the car is not in use. You can even set the timer overnight to make use of off peak charge rates.
Yep, long distances take some planning, but most people ( not all), drive within the range most of the time.
Oil is running out.
Burning fossil fuels are bad for the environment, especially in built up areas with high population density, they are bad for us.
People say the environmental cost of an EV car is the same as a fossil fuel car.....
Taking the initial manufacturing environment cost as being about equal, the EV car can “burn” any type of electricity....nuclear, coal,gas, wind, solar, hydro .
The fossil fuel car burns oil, which uses a lot of energy just to produce. Then it is typically sent around the world in big tankers. Then it is transported to petrol stations, then it is burnt by cars.
All this energy is burnt into the environment.
So, new technology to reduce emissions need to be invested in green energy, new charge network etc, will need time to achieve.
Zero road tax, very much reduced service costs. No DMF,no particulate filter,no oil.
Longer life brakes due to regen on the EV. Virtual silent.
We get typically four miles for every one kWh of energy. One kWh is approx 16p.
Made the commitment to being “more green” a while ago.
Solar panels on the roof, plus bought a Tesla Powerwall battery to reduce the strain on the grid and cost of electricity.
Electricity is going to cost more in the future.
Won’t suit everyone, but EV cars would suit a large proportion of the population.
Indeed there are many well served places like that and the UK total of charging points is quite good compared to the total number of e-cars.
The first problem though is the distribution of charge points, some towns or areas with large clusters of them, others with none at all.
The second problem is that where there are clusters, they are often all with one supplier, so if not a paid up member of that network they're no use.
The third problem, related to the second and which I've mentioned above, is the multiplicity of networks usually requiring membership with annual or monthly fees. There's a huge number of potential e-car buyers who would only do one or two long journeys a year, so having to have multiple memberships with costly fees for just one or two charges is ridiculous. There are attempts such as Polar to have an integrated membership but so far they have many failings.
The fourth problem is the high number of out of action charge points at any one time, critical on some routes.
The whole UK charging point situation is a mess which seriously needs some integration and overall management.
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I've done a bit or research into electric cars last few days. Range would not really be an issue for me, a typical journey being about 30 miles. I have a drive and a garage, the garage is where my meter and consumer unit is located. Home charging would therefore not be a problem.
So two issues that concern people ie. milage range and charging point would be fine. However I probably will hang on from buying one just yet for the following reasons.
They are still a fair bit more expensive to buy than the equivalent IC car. Even though over the life time of the car the costs are probably similar bearing in mind the cheaper maintenance costs and running costs of the E car. You still need to find that extra money up front for the initial purchase.
There is still a fairly limited range of cars available from a few well known manufacturers for the kind of money I would consider wanting to spend.
I suspect in the next few years the cost of electric cars is likely to come down and the choice (different models and manufacturers) likely to drastically increase. I don't tend to like being an early adaptor especially when spending a lot of money, so I will probably hang on for a while longer.
So two issues that concern people ie. milage range and charging point would be fine. However I probably will hang on from buying one just yet for the following reasons.
They are still a fair bit more expensive to buy than the equivalent IC car. Even though over the life time of the car the costs are probably similar bearing in mind the cheaper maintenance costs and running costs of the E car. You still need to find that extra money up front for the initial purchase.
There is still a fairly limited range of cars available from a few well known manufacturers for the kind of money I would consider wanting to spend.
I suspect in the next few years the cost of electric cars is likely to come down and the choice (different models and manufacturers) likely to drastically increase. I don't tend to like being an early adaptor especially when spending a lot of money, so I will probably hang on for a while longer.
It's ridiculous that car manufacturers didn't come to a battery standard insofar as the ability to just swap a battery, pay and go onto your journey in a handful of minutes. Essentially you'd rent the battery; the specifics would need sorting out but this would mean existing petrol stations could offer the service and "charging" would be much more comparable to refilling with petrol and charged at the POS.
The grid would need much less infrastructure change - local transformers wouldn't handle the vast majority of the load as the transformers handling petrol stations would handle much more of the charging.
The grid would need much less infrastructure change - local transformers wouldn't handle the vast majority of the load as the transformers handling petrol stations would handle much more of the charging.
Doesn't allow for any development, we'd all still be stuck with a standard horse or something!
Renault did do this in Israel and many stations had the batteries, but I understand it's considered a failure.
Among many problems there's the design stagnation that Chris mentions and not knowing what quality of battery is being received each time.
With the long life of today's batteries and a 250 mile range becoming widely available from next year I don't think an exchange scheme necessary now.
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Constructing oak framed buildings for a living, I'm seeing a big increase the clients that I work for, either future proofing the garage electrics by adding provision for a charging point, or who actually own electric cars.
The last client was apparently selling surplus supply back to the grid, but I don't know how that works, or whether it was even true.
Having recently purchased a new to us diesel estate, I'm actually thinking that perhaps we should of looked at electric cars. In hindsight, most of our journeys are local, and when we do complete longer journeys, we could of simply hired a car. Perhaps, when my daughter has finished uni, and we aren't doing any journeys of significance, then that will be the time to change.
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The last client was apparently selling surplus supply back to the grid, but I don't know how that works, or whether it was even true.
Having recently purchased a new to us diesel estate, I'm actually thinking that perhaps we should of looked at electric cars. In hindsight, most of our journeys are local, and when we do complete longer journeys, we could of simply hired a car. Perhaps, when my daughter has finished uni, and we aren't doing any journeys of significance, then that will be the time to change.
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