The problem with E-bikes in the UK.

[Deleted member 128]

I read a story a few weeks ago about somebody who needed to make a journey that should have taken around 4 hours in an IC vehicle (possibly Manchester to Glasgow?) and they allowed 6 hours in their EV vehicle to recharge part way. The purpose of the journey was to give a very important speech.

They stopped to recharge, found all the recharge stations out of order and had to use a taxi to reach their destination just in time.

The next day, a Sunday, they took a taxi back to their EV and found that the recharge stations were still out of order because they wasn't serviced over the weekend, they had to find local accommodation until later on Monday when they could recharge and finally complete their journey.

That's precisely why I won't consider an EV right now.

The Times today had an article pointing out that many hybrid vehicles sold for fleet use never even get their charging cables unwrapped, they are just refuelled and us tax payers are paying their owners big subsidies for this!!

Having said that, if I lived in a city and only did short journeys I'd have bought an EV years ago.

"Each to their own" as they say...

 

[Nev]

Interesting story electrifly, is the following idea feasible?

Would it be possible to have a small light weight and portable, petrol powered motor/generator set. Contained in a box that could be placed in the boot when going on long journeys in an E.V.

You would not need to keep any petrol in the tank of the motor/generator set, so that should help from a safety point of view, just have a petrol can with you that you can fill up at a petrol station.

So if you are part way through a long journey and cant find any charging stations that are working, you can get some petrol, put it into your motor/generator and charge up your car batteries using that.

I've not searched to see if these types of devices exist, I suspect they might be to big and heavy to be carried around in a boot although I am sure I have seen something similar to this being used by people with camper vans.

Anyone got any thoughts?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Interesting story electrifly, is the following idea feasible?

Would it be possible to have a small light weight and portable, petrol powered motor/generator set. Contained in a box that could be placed in the boot when going on long journeys in an E.V.

You would not need to keep any petrol in the tank of the motor/generator set, so that should help from a safety point of view, just have a petrol can with you that you can fill up at a petrol station.

So if you are part way through a long journey and cant find any charging stations that are working, you can get some petrol, put it into your motor/generator and charge up your car batteries using that.

I've not searched to see if these types of devices exist, I suspect they might be to big and heavy to be carried around in a boot although I am sure I have seen something similar to this being used by people with camper vans.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a BMW i3 with range extender?

 

[flecc]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a BMW i3 with range extender?

They haven't been too successful though, only a tiny range extension with their silly little petrol tank and the 600 cc engine overheating.

Good idea, poor execution.
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[chris_n]

I read a story a few weeks ago about somebody who needed to make a journey that should have taken around 4 hours in an IC vehicle (possibly Manchester to Glasgow?) and they allowed 6 hours in their EV vehicle to recharge part way. The purpose of the journey was to give a very important speech.

They stopped to recharge, found all the recharge stations out of order and had to use a taxi to reach their destination just in time.

The next day, a Sunday, they took a taxi back to their EV and found that the recharge stations were still out of order because they wasn't serviced over the weekend, they had to find local accommodation until later on Monday when they could recharge and finally complete their journey.

That's precisely why I won't consider an EV right now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6225039/Nissan-Leafs-range-just-160-miles-good-luck-finding-charging-point-works.html

 

[Charliefox]

I think a big part of this could be that people do not know what an Ebike is in England. 90% of my friends and family thought an Ebike is just a slow moped with a throttle. I'm getting bored of explaining to people that throttle controlled Ebikes are illegal in the UK and you HAVE to cycle to make the bike move.

Not quite correct. At least for my first ebike....an 18 year old powerbyke which had 2 settings controlled by a push button. In the first you only have to peddle up to 3mph or so and then the full throttle can then be used...it has no PAS. In the second setting with the button pushed in it is necessary to pedal at all times to use the throttle. This was all legal at the time and as far as I know still is. A sort of UK fudge to get round EU rules. The snag, as I see it, is that PAS is on all the time on modern ebikes unless switched off, at whatever level you wish. I live at a level of 440' above my town with long levels of level stretches between 3 downhill sections. I prefer to pick and choose power via the throttle rather than to switch off to save battery power. I do realize that once over c15mph all motors (?) cut out anyway.

 

[Charliefox]

Seeing as how this thread has been hijacked a bit Flec, what's you view on low usage? As a low user I don't contribute much in the way of exhaust gasses but suffer massive depreciation if measured by the mile..
Current car is just 2 years old with 9000 on the clock with just four long runs of 400+ miles.

Cos you spend much more time on your Ebikes I expect!

 

[Charliefox]

Electricity is going to cost more in the future.

Won’t suit everyone, but EV cars would suit a large proportion of the population.

Well something for sure is going up as the £17 billion? or so of road tax, fuel duty and vat now going to goverment coffers will still be needed. Not to mention the demise of the car trade over time which is paid for by those expensive services for 'normal' vehicles. Plus probable very low churn rate for electric cars. Makes me wonder what happens to all this labour force!

 

[Gubbins]

A more interesting statistic would be the percentage of the populaion that have a private drive or garage where a personal charging point could be installed.

 

[Charliefox]

Is your car economic? Nothing looses value quicker than motor vehicle depreciation.

Sure, PW2 is about £6000.

But, I still get about £1000 FIT.
This year to date we have saved about £500 in electricity that I would have purchased without the PW2.

PW2 makes long term sense, won’t have another ICE car, so my car will be charged via the PW2.

Think long term, certainly makes more sense than throwing the money at a depreciation on a car.

Forgot to say, we were spending about £800 a year on diesel, so add that to the savings.

How long do you think FIT will last once it becomes general for thousands of folk. I think the subsidy for onshore wind turbines will soon end as they are getting competive without them so FIT will likely decline to normal tariff prices, no?

 

[Charliefox]

For some reason Brits are jealous of anyone who has something they don't, whether it's an add-on to their house, a nicer car, or a £4K e-bike. Ignore the comments, as everyone says, and be snug that you have something the rabble covets.

You seem to be the only one still on the original topic! Well done! It does show how much even ebike owners think about cars and their future though.

 

[Charliefox]

A big problem with electric cars is not so much range as range anxiety.

Would anyone buy a petrol car with a two or three gallon tank?

Short answer is 'no', even though the same arguments about rarely needing long range in one journey apply.

Funny enough Motor Cyclists DO have small tanks and a worse mpg than many cars but it doesn't seem to bother them!

 

[wheeler]

How long do you think FIT will last

Till 31st March 2019.

wheeler

 

[russ18uk]

How long do you think FIT will last once it becomes general for thousands of folk. I think the subsidy for onshore wind turbines will soon end as they are getting competive without them so FIT will likely decline to normal tariff prices, no?

It's a huge issue already in California where their local grid PAYS to get rid of their excess to other states. I don't believe this will be an issue in the UK for some time though as we import quite a bit from Europe. Currently 9% from France, Netherlands and Ireland right now and 20% coming from wind. Considering over 40% is being produced from coal and gas we have some way to go.

We need much more supply and, more importantly, storage. And much of that needs to be localised, distributed storage.

Long way to go before the country is self-sustained on naturally produced energy.

 

[flecc]

A more interesting statistic would be the percentage of the populaion that have a private drive or garage where a personal charging point could be installed.

The RAC did a survey that resulted in them telling government it was 25%, but it was an obviously flawed study. It's now widely believed that it's nearer a third of British households that cannot have access to their own chargepoint for various reasons.

In London where electric cars would be of most use, a much higher proportion cannot have a personal chargepoint, certainly over 40%.
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[flecc]

Funny enough Motor Cyclists DO have small tanks and a worse mpg than many cars but it doesn't seem to bother them!

They do much lower mileages on average, most are just pleasure vehicles.
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[flecc]

You seem to be the only one still on the original topic! Well done! It does show how much even ebike owners think about cars and their future though.

I think e-bikers are naturally interested in all forms of environmentally better vehicles. Electric aircraft were another recent discusssion point in here.
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[Denis99]

The FIT has been reduced by the government, to the present day that makes it less unattractive.

I was fortunate that when we installed the panels, the FIT was reasonable and guaranteed for the next 25 years.

 

[Nev]

Funny enough Motor Cyclists DO have small tanks and a worse mpg than many cars but it doesn't seem to bother them!

Your right but the difference is that its not that difficult in the UK to find somewhere to buy some petrol if your starting to run a bit low. It would appear to a lot more difficult to do the same if your running out of charge with an E.V.

 

[Fat Rat]

Your right but the difference is that its not that difficult in the UK to find somewhere to buy some petrol if your starting to run a bit low. It would appear to a lot more difficult to do the same if your running out of charge with an E.V.

And it only takes 5minutes to fill a car tank for 500 plus miles
This is also a big deal for a lot of people not just range.