Instead of getting mad you should be saying or at least thinking at least I'm not the one all sweaty with a sore arse. E biking lets me appreciate the scenery, not that there is much with all the beer cans, graffiti, dog **** and broken glass, along with the idiots that produce such "scenery" hogging the bike paths and not moving when you ask lol
The problem with E-bikes in the UK.
- Thread starter kingsknight
- Start date
I am a Brit, who lives in Germany, who still takes holidays in the UK, sometimes towing a caravan. Yes, even at my age I need that sort of range, For me as a younger man, even more important, I needed to drive such distances around Europe for my job!! Too much test equipment to take flights each and every time...
Plus, I have many friends around the world, the general rule is that until an electric car can be recharged in say less than 30 minutes, even if it means a battery pack has to be replaced, they have no interest at all....
As I previously said, the people with such cars today are the "Testers" for us all, I would like to thank them all, but modern electric cars suffer from too many problems at this time....Sorry.
Regards
Andy
Hey Andy,
Although I don't do many miles I tend to agree with most of what you say. Do you think it's likely most folks will end up running 2 cars, one electric and one petrol? As I have found out caravan towing isn't an option but a caravanette/motor home being a much larger vehicle could be fitted with a much larger battery and might fill the gap for some.
My worry, which according to those more informed than I is unfounded, is that a new battery technology would make them all obsolete overnight.
You bring up an interesting few points, which I will answer from my point of view:-
Being a pensioner, two cars would be simply a waste of money. Pensioners will form a larger and larger part of the population over the next 20 years or so, an important market.
As to a caravanette/motor home, they are a lot less practical, especially with children (except tiny ones), unless possibly you are a boat owner as well.
Why? Well of all the people I have known over the last 50 years or so who buy one, often sell it after around 12-18 months. Sometimes with a large financial loss....as being too impractical....
The reasons being that in many countries, parking for such vehicles, in towns and cities, simply for shopping trips, can either be impossible or expensive. Finding a place even to empty the chemical toilet can also be very difficult.
You go on a camping site with it. maybe miles from the next town, you are stuck there, or you have to pack everything up, pay the site fees, come back later and your lovely spot has been taken!!
Furthermore, such vehicles are sometimes not allowed on many lovely camping sites as they are simply too big or heavy - or both!!
With a caravan, the initial cost is minor in comparison to a caravanette/motor home, you only need to have one car that is good enough to tow it legally, you park the caravan on a caravan site and have your car free to travel around the area......With the children even!
As a camper since I was less than 2 years old, first with tents all over europe in the 50's, later with caravans, I have a lot of personal experience.
Caravanette/motor homes are OK for families with small children, where the whole holiday is on one site and all needed amenities are available, Italy has a lot of such sites as does what used to be Yugoslavia....But they are not for me, my wife or our dog!! Mostly they are also too loud!! For that reason, my wife and I call them "Hulley Gulley" sites, and the ADAC Camping Guide shows a beach ball. The more beach balls shown in the guide, the less likely that we will even look at it!!
At best, a single night and back on the road!!
The owners of caravanette/motor homes, will never admit they spent $100,000 and regret every penny! So they stick it out for a few holidays and then sell.....The people who use them for year after year, sadly I find to be boring people, my opinion only!!
regards
Andy
Fully understood Andy, your circumstances are very different from the majority of drivers. Which is just as well of course, we couldn't cope with very large numbers switching even though so many could, since we haven't the capacity to supply their electricity needs.
But we who use them aren't "testers" and their only problems are operational, such as range for some, charge point deficiencies and the things you mention that affect a minority. The cars themselves put i.c. cars to shame where reliability, service needs and running costs are concerned.
.
Last edited:
I sort of agree but only in the short term
I can’t see electric cars still going well on there original batteries at 10 yrs and 200,000 plus miles which I see a lot of Internal combustion engines still on there original running gear doing regular
I can’t see them doing 100k plus
I hope to be proved wrong because we do need something as a replacement for fossil fuels but it’s not going to be a viable financial option for many people let alone the range issues for a long time
I find this all the time with this subject, too much negativity.
One Leaf has already done over 100,000 miles in 6 years! Bought as a West of Engand taxi, it's operated continuously ever since for that and is still using the original battery, the owner claiming little loss of range.
There'll be plenty more like that since e-cars are inherently much more able than i.c cars to do very high trouble free mileages. The simple fact is that there's so little to go wrong or wear out.
Take my Leaf as an example. There's a controller and an electric motor driving the front wheels directly through a simple reduction gearbox. Those are never remotely near stressed since flat out continuous driving is simply impossible in today's road traffic. There's no radiator, water pump, alternator, starter motor, clutch, gearchanging box, camshaft drive belt or chain.
There's not even brakes wearing out, since like most I'm now flipping to Eco in urban driving since the motor regen does all the in-town braking for me. I'm informed that brake pad replacements on Leafs are very rare.
The service schedule is a joke, it's just looking to see if anything is falling off! The first actual action is at 18,000 miles and once again just looking, this time checking the oil level in the reduction gearbox and checking other fluids as usual.
The battery like most e-cars now is warrantied to 8 years for 75% remaining capacity. It will then cost circa £5000 to replace, but so what when the running costs have been so low. Go with GreenEnergy's extra low late night rate of 4.99 pence per kW and that's equal to 400 miles per gallon cost. The saving on fuel and very low service and repair costs over 8 years will look after battery replacement.
As for financial viability, I don't see a problem since their prices have been continuously falling. Eight years ago the basic Leaf was launched at £32,000, replacement battery at 5 years £16,000.
My vastly superior model cost £24,000 (excluding my extra cost of getting electricity to the garage), and the replacement battery cost has plunged and is forecast to drop further. The Leaf is the size of a Focus and if you check the equivalent top of the range Focus you'll find its costs about the same.
As for range, I think there's huge exaggeration about drivers needs. The great majority of all drivers needs are met with an over 150 mile range, and that's here now. As usual it's the media wittering on about range anxiety that's created unnecessary fears.
One of my neighbours for example, says he couldn't buy one due to range anxiety. It turns out the longest run return trip he ever does is two thirds of my range, and he only does that in the warmer months of the year when the range is at its highest. So his range anxiety exists only in his imagination.
There are things wrong about electric cars and here's the list:
A quarter of people nationally and a third in London have no home electricity access for a charge point.
The public charging point network is far from satisfactory. There's plenty of them, but the way they are run and used is not good enough.
Electric cars in general can't tow anything, so no caravans or car trailers.
For a minority the range is insufficient.
The reliability and very low needs of electric cars mean they are very bad news for the motor trade and the petroleum industry.
They are also turning out to be bad news for the manufacturers, since they end the days of changing the car every three years, most keeping them very long term.
.
Last edited:
I here all of what your saying but money wise i have run a 2k car for 5 yrs and only serviced it with no other failures and 60k as been put on by myself
electric cars are going to have to come on a long way to match that outlay
I personally cant comprehend 24k on a car of any type with depreciation being a major factor in all vehicles
And as for range its fine if your running around town or a city but I travel to Scotland quite a few times a year and at 500mls one way batteries are out when I get 650mls out of one tank of fuel and don't have to stop to recharge the car
Again I understand its all got to change but for now I don't see it myself for a while for mile munchers
A long time ago I sat down in front of a spreadsheet and ran the numbers. Result?
- we sold the family sized car that spent most of the week parked in front of the house
- we bought a Smart for town use
- we had a budget rental place nearby where we rented larger cars for family trips about twice a month. After a while we were almost always upgraded to the class above for free. Once or twice a year we were given a luxury model for a free weekend rental.
The result was a car budget identical to our original budget but with more flexibility and comfort. An electric assisted cargo bike would replace the Smart as my city vehicle of choice these days and would result in a substantial saving.
- we sold the family sized car that spent most of the week parked in front of the house
- we bought a Smart for town use
- we had a budget rental place nearby where we rented larger cars for family trips about twice a month. After a while we were almost always upgraded to the class above for free. Once or twice a year we were given a luxury model for a free weekend rental.
The result was a car budget identical to our original budget but with more flexibility and comfort. An electric assisted cargo bike would replace the Smart as my city vehicle of choice these days and would result in a substantial saving.
True on outlay, but e-cars easily match and exceed the other factors.
But depreciation isn't such a big factor, since as said, e-car owners keep theirs long term.
Yes not for very high mile munchers, but to say they are only for running around town or city is the usual sort of gross exaggeration about e-cars. Living on the South London fringe my there and back range covers all of London, Surrey and East Sussex, almost all parts of Kent, West Sussex and Berkshire, with large parts of Essex, Hertfordshire and Hampshire.
That's a very big area and with the South East traffic conditions trips can easily mean over four hours of driving, more than enough for most drivers.
The proportion of drivers who never go far is very high. There are typically 40 cars parked on my short hill outside at nights and most are still there by day too, I've just counted and 24 are still there. The other 16 odd are away but wont have gone very far and will be back later. The insurance industry reports that females who are half of all drivers now average around 5000 miles a year. That's less than one charge a week! The average for men is only around 9000 miles a year.
After deducting the high mileage people like yourself, it's clear that the vast majority never drive very far and could easily live with recent e-car ranges.
.
But it's a government consultation exercise so will only come into being after I'm dead.
.
Now you dont know that.. my mother is 97 and still lives independantly...But it's a government consultation exercise so will only come into being after I'm dead.
.
Might even consider a plate on my ebike if I could choose the colour... No I wouldn't!
But there again I also carry a toothbrush when cycling...
I should leave a gap here fore someone to ask why, but in case they don't I have it for when roadies pass me uttering unflattering coments so that if I get the chance to do a hill re-overtake I woosh past one handed brushing my teeth.
There are so many ways .......
Maybe, but will I still be driving then? With a friend and neighbour having his driving licence rightly taken from him at 85 due to an increasing blind spot in his peripheral vision, similar could happen to me even if I last for many years. I feel sorry for him since it's very badly affected his life and curtailed the many activities he previously travelled to.
And another neighbour has just lost hers due to increasing Alzheimers. She's the second locally to have lost a driving licence due to that condition since I've lived here. Driving and old age are often not compatible.
.
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
