The Last Wisper Sneak Preview of the year. 12kg Road Bike

[Wisper Bikes]

As per my previous post, the implication is that this will mean registration and all that implies, since 25kph / 15.5 mph / 1000 watts is where registration of motor vehicles starts at.

You may be aware that some while ago the European Parliament discussed the power limit of EAPCs for similar reasons and proposed removal of all power limits, leaving it to designers and the 25 kph limit. The EU Commission rejected the proposal.
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Hi Flecc, I do remember, we did manage to get rid of weight limits though. It's going to be tough and I doubt 1000Wh nominal will ever get through. If we need to register these bikes then that's good for us as long as it's transparent and easy to do. With the big players from Europe on board we may get somewhere. HS Pedelecs are a massive success everywhere that registration is simple and straight forward. We are looking for a watered down version of the full HS category all over Europe and the UK. EBikes are not mopeds, although one of the points on the agenda is to open the throttle again!

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

do we need to remind ourselves that the law lets us ride as fast as we like, but not assisted at above 25kph. There is absolutely no fair argument to support an e-biker overtaking a normal bike at for example 32 kph with a motor.

Your argument was you didn't want bikes to go fast due to the state of our roads, then "When we get older, it's not just the muscles weaken, our brain goes slow, our eyes can't read the road sign as quickly etc." now you don't want ebikes to overtake vanilla bikes. Surely you know from anecdotal evidence here that they already do?

You are mistaken, the law does not allow us to ride as fast as we like, speed limits apply to bicycles too.

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

If we need to register these bikes then that's good for us as long as it's transparent and easy to do. With the big players from Europe on board we may get somewhere. HS Pedelecs are a massive success everywhere that registration is simple and straight forward. We are looking for a watered down version of the full HS category all over Europe and the UK.

I agree that accepting a form of simple registration (probably insurance too) is the best way forward to achieve change.

It's best in such a campaign to be ready for the counter arguments you might get raised against you:

First is that the Speed pedelec class hasn't proved popular, only achieving 1% of pedelec sales and with only Germany and very belatedly The Netherlands accepting it in the EU. France did plan to join them January 2017 but then scrapped the plan.

Second is the way the German market has undermined the case for more power. Following realisation that 250 watts was insufficient for the Speed pedelec class, it was raised to 500 watts and a flush of 500 watt rated machines quickly appeared. Since then they've largely disappeared, the market settling for 350 watts as the best power/range combination.
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[RobF]

The new bike looks good, although it is not without its competition.

Cube offer Fazua bikes for about the same price - the £4K one in the link is lower spec.

As with Wisper's eMTBs, Wisper seem to think the customer will pay as much for a Wisper bike as for one of the established premium brands.

Strikes me as a brave strategy.

https://www.evanscycles.com/cube-agree-hybrid-c-62-sl-disc-2018-electric-road-bike-EV318118

 

[Artstu]

Wholly molly I bet they don't sell many of these https://www.evanscycles.com/cube-agree-hybrid-c-62-slt-disc-2018-electric-road-bike-EV318119

half price offer soon I bet

 

[Trevormonty]

The 25km/h cutoff make sense on busy european city cyclesays at rushhour. 25km/h is about average for unassisted commuter bikes. I can see why europeans came up with that speed. In states where cycleways are less common 32km/h is lot safer especially on road.

Problem is having fast bikes using offroad cycleways especially ones shared with walkers. There is no easy answer.

 

[Woosh]

Problem is having fast bikes using offroad cycleways especially ones shared with walkers. There is no easy answer.

the problem is the speed limiter is a blunt instrument. If the road or cycletrack is totally empty, I would have no objection that e-bikers have a bit of harmless fun.

 

[flecc]

As with Wisper's eMTBs, Wisper seem to think the customer will pay as much for a Wisper bike as for one of the established premium brands.

Strikes me as a brave strategy.

There is a strong counter argument though. Established road bike brands know little or nothing about e-bikes, while Wisper are highly experienced in this area.

Older roadies going electric will want to be reassured more about the electrical aspect than the bicycle side they already know well.
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[Woosh]

Established road bike brands know little or nothing about e-bikes,

that's over simplified.

 

[flecc]

that's over simplified.

For you and me yes, but not for the average roadie going electric.

And none of them have Wisper's one and half decades of e-experience.
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[Woosh]

For you and me yes, but not for the average roadie going electric.

And none of them have Wisper's one and half decades of e-experience.
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on the other hand, none of us UK based has successfully sold carbon framed e-bikes. As far as I know, Wisper has not even sold road style e-bikes.
It's nearly 3 years since I have been selling the Karoo and I have just finished its first revision. It takes that long to figure out where next.

 

[RobF]

Wholly molly I bet they don't sell many of these https://www.evanscycles.com/cube-agree-hybrid-c-62-slt-disc-2018-electric-road-bike-EV318119

half price offer soon I bet

Which is another problem going against the premium brands - the online discounters get hold of it and spank its backside.

Cube/Fazua bikes are still fairly new, but 'offers' in the next year or so could skew the market further.

With the best will in the world, who is going to pay extra for a similar spec Wisper?

The Orbea Gain is also a contender.

Another established roadie brand, basic front hub motor but the controls are neat enough.

And at about £2K it's significantly cheaper than any Fazua bike.

 

[flecc]

on the other hand, none of us UK based has successfully sold carbon framed e-bikes. As far as I know, Wisper has not even sold road style e-bikes.
It's nearly 3 years since I have been selling the Karoo and I have just finished its first revision. It takes that long to figure out where next.

Of course it isn't easy and it's a small market.

But those with the cash to spare can fall victim to the allure of such a product. It's chiefly the electric aspect that is most likely to make an ex roadie nervous, so being reassured by a brand's long experience in that area could make the difference.

As long as it covers the cost of its introduction it will add valuable status to the brand. Just look at the crazy £1000 phone market dominated by Apple i-phone and Samsung Galaxy. Both sell huge numbers with those same names as low as £100 based on the perceived image of their top models.
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[Wisper Bikes]

I agree that accepting a form of simple registration (probably insurance too) is the best way forward to achieve change.

It's best in such a campaign to be ready for the counter arguments you might get raised against you:

First is that the Speed pedelec class hasn't proved popular, only achieving 1% of pedelec sales and with only Germany and very belatedly The Netherlands accepting it in the EU. France did plan to join them January 2017 but then scrapped the plan.

Second is the way the German market has undermined the case for more power. Following realisation that 250 watts was insufficient for the Speed pedelec class, it was raised to 500 watts and a flush of 500 watt rated machines quickly appeared. Since then they've largely disappeared, the market settling for 350 watts as the best power/range combination.
.

I should have been more specific re speed pedelecs. As far as I had ascertained from RM is that their Speed Pedelecs were selling extremely well especially in Holland. As a percentage of the whole market, I would expect the numbers to be small.

350W Nominal / 700Wh Max does seem to be a good balance as far as power/range is concerned and it seems to where the big motor manufacturers are pitching, hence their popularity.

 

[Artstu]

The Orbea Gain is also a contender.

Another established roadie brand, basic front hub motor but the controls are neat enough.

And at about £2K it's significantly cheaper than any Fazua bike.

Vastly cheaper, rear motor, but I'm sure that was a typo on your part https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Orbea-Gain-D40-2018-Electric-Road-Bike_109757.htm?sku=406959&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&mkwid=sH54YoBHD_dc|pcrid|43133748533|product|406959|&gclid=CjwKCAjwlIvXBRBjEiwATWAQIo0Y_GjibR1WvSLjBDtRKD3Xgby7yKQDcALEfWmqc6bho9D_iw8HRxoCfb8QAvD_BwE#

I'll be interested to hear about the drag or lack of on the Fazua motor once above the assist speed. Even with the motor removed there must be some degree of drag on the bevelled motor drive.

Still nice to see developments heading in a direction that interests me.

 

[Woosh]

As long as it covers the cost of its introduction it will add valuable status to the brand.

if it backfires, for example a plastic part breaks too easily, it can damage the brand too.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The new bike looks good, although it is not without its competition.

Cube offer Fazua bikes for about the same price - the £4K one in the link is lower spec.

As with Wisper's eMTBs, Wisper seem to think the customer will pay as much for a Wisper bike as for one of the established premium brands.

Strikes me as a brave strategy.

https://www.evanscycles.com/cube-agree-hybrid-c-62-sl-disc-2018-electric-road-bike-EV318118

We can of course dumb down the bikes to get the price point lower, however we feel that to compete we need to be better and less expensive at the spec point. It's going to be interesting, fortunately we are in a position to be able to experiment at the moment. If we have got it wrong we will adapt.

We are very lucky in having Jeremy on board, he still rides his monstrously expensive (< £10k 6.4kg) carbon road bike with his club and is a true roadie geek! He has also worked with Magura introducing Bosch power systems all over Europe so has the knowledge of parts and electronics not available to most. We are very fortunate to have both long term electric bicycle experience and now in depth road and mountain bike smarts.

 

[RobF]

The rewards may be there if you can position Wisper as a cool, niche brand.

Not easy, but it's been done before.

In mountain bikes, Orange - and probably others I've not heard of - have successfully taken on the big brands and established themselves as the quality product the informed customer buys.

A few of the big brands in roadie bikes have become a victim of their own success.

Some customers shy away from the likes of Giant, Cannondale, and Cube because everyone else in their road club has one.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

if it backfires, for example a plastic part breaks too easily, it can damage the brand too.

Good point Woosh, we are very mindful of such pitfalls. That's why we are using high end branded parts though-out, such as the Shimano Ultegra R8070 Di2 Disc Groupset which can be bought at just under £1,400.00 from discounters, but retails normally at £2,000 plus. No cheap plastic parts there I trust.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The rewards may be there if you can position Wisper as a cool, niche brand.

Not easy, but it's been done before.

In mountain bikes, Orange - and probably others I've not heard of - have successfully taken on the big brands and established themselves as the quality product the informed customer buys.

A few of the big brands in roadie bikes have become a victim of their own success.

Some customers shy away from the likes of Giant, Cannondale, and Cube because everyone else in their road club has one.

Hi Rob, thanks for your comments. We are endeavouring to go that way, but as you say, it's not easy. We have sponsored a Wisper Pro eMTB team that will start riding in mid summer. We have a couple of staff entered in the Enduro meeting at the beginning of May on Wisper Wildcats. We have ordered small numbers to start off with, so we are not over exposed financially.

We are using the same components as the high end brands then building them with a lot of care in small numbers, these are not mass produced bikes. We are giving it a go, no one could blame us for not trying!