The Last Wisper Sneak Preview of the year. 12kg Road Bike

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Woosh, good question, thanks for asking.

There is a double sided torque sensor and speed sensor with CAN connectivity to remote accessories all engineered into the very clever bottom bracket.

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

thanks for letting me know.
I did find the connector in one of their youtube videos a little while after posting.
They don't save much weight on motor (1.91kgs) + gearbox (1.31kgs) = 3.22kgs compared to the 2.9kg Bosch Active Line drive unit. The clever bit is to remove both motor and battery when not needed.
How useful it is? I don't know but it looks a beauty!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Good point, however they are completely different motors, this can be removed in a few seconds to convert the bike to a 7.5kg road bike. Absolute genius!

All the best, David

 

[Crockers]

David
Don't get me wrong as this isn't a criticism but a question.

Firstly I think its a stunner, but at that price I find it hard to see your target market. A roadie will spend that on his road bike. Would he want an ebike? I doubt it
Would someone of my age want one - yes - for its aesthetic looks . But at my age I need to sit upright. And at my age practicality takes over .So no its not for me

So it brings me back to what is your target market. I'm sure you have done extensive market research amongst your dealers .

I still think it looks lovely and will be a great ambassador for the Wisper band. But for the mainstay market, and with your commitment with Shimano, a bike along the lines of the Sven bike would fit your stable and generate more sales and profits .

All imho and meant in a positive manner.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David
Don't get me wrong as this isn't a criticism but a question.

Firstly I think its a stunner, but at that price I find it hard to see your target market. A roadie will spend that on his road bike. Would he want an ebike? I doubt it
Would someone of my age want one - yes - for its aesthetic looks . But at my age I need to sit upright. And at my age practicality takes over .So no its not for me

So it brings me back to what is your target market. I'm sure you have done extensive market research amongst your dealers .

I still think it looks lovely and will be a great ambassador for the Wisper band. But for the mainstay market, and with your commitment with Shimano, a bike along the lines of the Sven bike would fit your stable and generate more sales and profits .

All imho and meant in a positive manner.

Hi Crockers, thanks for your kind words! Of course, it’s not a massive market. In fact it’s very niche. There are club riders that can’t keep up with the peleton anymore but still want to ride at the weekend with their mates. These guys are used to spending thousands on a bike so £6000 will probably be in thier price range. The bike is meant for fit people who need help on the hills. The unit will climb the bike about 1500 meters.

It can be used for training, then competition when the motor has been removed.

All the best David.

 

[flecc]

David
Don't get me wrong as this isn't a criticism but a question.

Firstly I think its a stunner, but at that price I find it hard to see your target market. A roadie will spend that on his road bike. Would he want an ebike? I doubt it
Would someone of my age want one - yes - for its aesthetic looks . But at my age I need to sit upright. And at my age practicality takes over .So no its not for me

So it brings me back to what is your target market. I'm sure you have done extensive market research amongst your dealers .

I still think it looks lovely and will be a great ambassador for the Wisper band. But for the mainstay market, and with your commitment with Shimano, a bike along the lines of the Sven bike would fit your stable and generate more sales and profits .

All imho and meant in a positive manner.

In this market the Wisper is a bargain. Cytronex have long been successfully selling exotic e-road bikes, adding their motor systems to the best road bikes:

At £10.5 k here's one of them
.

 

[Crockers]

Ok. I'm educated .Wow what a cost .

 

[Woosh]

Ok. I'm educated

Me too.
Some people spend an awful lot of dosh to hide the fact that they need a little help now and then.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It’s all about holding back the aging process for as long as possible and giving people who don’t have time to train the opportunity to enjoy road biking next to the younger and/or fitter.

Money is secondary to the benefits offered to those who can afford the ticket.

It’s all a part of the same emotional drive that finds people spending money on supercars, high fashion and even cosmetics.

All the best, David

 

[Stumpi]

I don't think the price is an issue the target market are used to spending this sort of money on a bike. The issue is not the bike but the UK speed restriction. I train a group of "average" triathletes who on group rides are averaging over 20 mph. In this company a 12kg road bike is really heavy so while you'll get a boost on the hills for the rest of the time above 15.5 mph you're pedaling a relatively heavy 12kg while the people around you are on sub 9kg bikes. Just to be clear I'm not running the bike down at all, its a great bit of kit but IMO the law makes it too slow for its target market

 

[Artstu]

I don't think the price is an issue the target market are used to spending this sort of money on a bike. The issue is not the bike but the UK speed restriction. I train a group of "average" triathletes who on group rides are averaging over 20 mph. In this company a 12kg road bike is really heavy so while you'll get a boost on the hills for the rest of the time above 15.5 mph you're pedaling a relatively heavy 12kg while the people around you are on sub 9kg bikes. Just to be clear I'm not running the bike down at all, its a great bit of kit but IMO the law makes it too slow for its target market

Spot on. When my riding companion reached 9-years old I could no longer keep up with her on the flat with no motor power above 16 mph.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It is a real issue Stumpi, we are entering the market fully aware of the limitations imposed upon us by the powers that be.

It's very premature to mention however a group of us in LEVA-EU, the same group that are fighting the EBMA in respect of Anti Dumping are putting together a paper to argue with the Commission regarding the restrictions currently placed on EPACS. Still very much similar to the man with the red flag walking in front of the first motor cars! The current limits were championed by the BA CONIBI and the EBMA, whilst smaller groups such as BEBA fought tooth and nail to try and secure more sensible measures.

Now the rest of the cycle industry have a lot of skin in the eBike market, their stance will no doubt have changed, I am sure they are kicking themselves. Hopefully they too see that the "man with the red flag" is now unnecessary.

We are asking to up the speed limit to 20mph, and increase the MAX power to 2kW. This will enable cargo bikes to do their stuff and will keep the bikes within the city 20mph limits. We are formulating a plan for acceleration limits which would be far more meaningful than power limits. It will take a long time but we have started. As always we are looking for others to join in and help with costs and work load!

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

We are asking to up the speed limit to 20mph, and increase the MAX power to 2kW

that's just plain wrong.
From our perspective, 15mph assist speed limit is right for the vast majority of our less than perfect roads and already, a significant percentage of EAPC riders derestrict their bikes. Increasing the assist limit would not cut that percentage.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I totally disagree with you Woosh. We all get fed up with hitting the 15.5mph buffer. Even old duffers like me would be more comfortable at 17-18 mph and Cargo bikes at 15.5mph will hold up traffic causing a rolling road block.

If people can change their ebike's settings, which as you know under the new EN14194 regs even the possibility of derestricting will put the bike outside of the scope of EN15194, an ebike with a true Nominal 250W motor will not get up to much more than 19mph.

If the bike can be legally ridden at 20mph and the motor can handle that speed on prolonged inclines without overheating, the number of people wanting to flout the law will be diminished dramatically.

 

[Woosh]

nothing stops people who need a cargo bike to get a number plate and pay insurance. We need to remind ourselves that EAPC is a concession so we can share in the advantages available to non-assisted bikers.
When we get older, it's not just the muscles weaken, our brain goes slow, our eyes can't read the road sign as quickly etc..

 

[flecc]

I don't think the price is an issue the target market are used to spending this sort of money on a bike. The issue is not the bike but the UK speed restriction. I train a group of "average" triathletes who on group rides are averaging over 20 mph. In this company a 12kg road bike is really heavy so while you'll get a boost on the hills for the rest of the time above 15.5 mph you're pedaling a relatively heavy 12kg while the people around you are on sub 9kg bikes. Just to be clear I'm not running the bike down at all, its a great bit of kit but IMO the law makes it too slow for its target market

Spot on. When my riding companion reached 9-years old I could no longer keep up with her on the flat with no motor power above 16 mph.

Three problems militating against a higher assist speed though.

First it will always be difficult for legislators to accept those who ride road bikes need assistance, seeing the speeds that these are commonly ridden at. Their aim is to get more regular utility cycling instead of car use, rather than assisting the sporting weekender.

Second that 25 kph/ 15.5 mph is where registered motor vehicles start at ( L1e-A ). That is a real block against higher unregistered motorised speeds.

Third is that to be stealthy these assisted road bikes generally have batteries too small for full time assistance on roadie journeys. They are often only intended for hill assistance. One very experienced pedelecs member buying a Cytronex and riding it normal pedelec fashion only just managed a 12 mile range. He didn't keep it long!
.

 

[flecc]

We are asking to up the speed limit to 20mph, and increase the MAX power to 2kW. This will enable cargo bikes to do their stuff and will keep the bikes within the city 20mph limits.

As per my previous post, the implication is that this will mean registration and all that implies, since 25kph / 15.5 mph / 1000 watts is where registration of motor vehicles starts at.

You may be aware that some while ago the European Parliament discussed the power limit of EAPCs for similar reasons and proposed removal of all power limits, leaving it to designers and the 25 kph limit. The EU Commission rejected the proposal.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

nothing stops people who need a cargo bike to get a number plate and pay insurance. We need to remind ourselves that EAPC is a concession so we can share in the advantages available to non-assisted bikers.
When we get older, it's not just the muscles weaken, our brain goes slow, our eyes can't read the road sign as quickly etc..

You would be surprised I am sure but some of us are happy for our "EN15194" bikes to go at 20mph anyway. What we are suggesting is to legalise what is happening already. The difference between 15.5 and 20 is not so great that it will cause problems. In my opinion it will make ebikes safer.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

As Flecc quite correctly points out, the limiting factor is currently range vs speed.

 

[Woosh]

The difference between 15.5 and 20 is not so great that it will cause problems. In my opinion it will make ebikes safer.

do we need to remind ourselves that the law lets us ride as fast as we like, but not assisted at above 25kph. There is absolutely no fair argument to support an e-biker overtaking a normal bike at for example 32 kph with a motor.