The great british e-bike scam

[hech]

Reading a post on ES the other day, a chap from Germany was saying he had bought a Tonaro for 650 euros new. In Germany Tonaro bikes are marketed as Rolektro and generally available for 850euros. In the US these bikes are marketed as the RmartinR10, Gette, Igoelectric amongst others and Ive seen it advertised there for $1200.In Australia they sell as Aseako and Zoca Rossa and I believe can be bought for $1200 Aus or so, though the ones with the nu vinci gearing maybe more expensive than that.
These bikes come with varied specification but generally less good than we are used to with the Tonaro brand in the UK, however it is difficult to justify the price differential through componentry cost alone. The Tonaro Bighit is available from Powerpedals UK at £1200 and the after sales service provided by them is second to none. Now I shall say again I have nothing but praise for the UK agents Powerpedals, but I believe we are asked to pay far more than is reasonable for electric bikes in this country. It is no wonder people moan about the European union when the benefits of the single market seem to be denied to us, the UK consumer.
This is what I mean when I say that you wont find many UK ebike dealers in heaven! (if there is an exception it will be Phil at Powerpedals).

 

[GaRRy]

Well if it was a completly level playing field then yes it would e a rip off. Unfortunately a lot of these differences (not all) are down to different tax rates and import duties

For example the UK's business rates are some of the highest in the world. These are all costs the supplier has absolutely no control over.

 

[Jeremy]

I think the other big difference is that many ebike businesses in the UK seem to be "one man and his dog" operations, without the volume of sales to enable them to get a good wholesale price or amortise their high overheads.

That may change once the high volume bike sales outlets start to offer reasonably good ebikes here and the market grows, but for now the UK ebike sales business seems to be very low key when compared to some other countries.

 

[flecc]

We also carry a measure of blame in not adopting the euro. Having a different currency makes price differentials easier to apply. If we had wholeheartedly entered a borderless Europe in the same spirit of it's major mainland countries, I'm sure we would have seen some very different pricing and taxation policies, most obviously of course in alcoholic drinks and tobacco.

 

[jazper53]

Reading a post on ES the other day, a chap from Germany was saying he had bought a Tonaro for 650 euros new. In Germany Tonaro bikes are marketed as Rolektro and generally available for 850euros. In the US these bikes are marketed as the RmartinR10, Gette, Igoelectric amongst others and Ive seen it advertised there for $1200.In Australia they sell as Aseako and Zoca Rossa and I believe can be bought for $1200 Aus or so, though the ones with the nu vinci gearing maybe more expensive than that.
These bikes come with varied specification but generally less good than we are used to with the Tonaro brand in the UK, however it is difficult to justify the price differential through componentry cost alone. The Tonaro Bighit is available from Powerpedals UK at £1200 and the after sales service provided by them is second to none. Now I shall say again I have nothing but praise for the UK agents Powerpedals, but I believe we are asked to pay far more than is reasonable for electric bikes in this country. It is no wonder people moan about the European union when the benefits of the single market seem to be denied to us, the UK consumer.
This is what I mean when I say that you wont find many UK ebike dealers in heaven! (if there is an exception it will be Phil at Powerpedals).

Nothing has changed there then, whether it be e-bikes, Dvds, and a whole list of other products..... welcome to rip-off Britain, and all its nonsensical excuses for the prices being higher

 

[funkylyn]

This is what I mean when I say that you wont find many UK ebike dealers in heaven! (if there is an exception it will be Phil at Powerpedals).

Well.....I would certainly agree with that, but I think that there are definitely more than one exception ........without seeming biased and naming names

Lynda

 

[hech]

When President Salmond raises the unit cost of spirits to 50p, Scotland may become the most expensive place in the world to buy whisky. That and e-bikes both.

 

[103Alex1]

We also carry a measure of blame in not adopting the euro. Having a different currency makes price differentials easier to apply. If we had wholeheartedly entered a borderless Europe in the same spirit of it's major mainland countries, I'm sure we would have seen some very different pricing and taxation policies, most obviously of course in alcoholic drinks and tobacco.

Interesting though, that the OP compares pricing in US and Australia as well as Europe. Those countries are not in the EU either and also not in a single currency. UK prices coming out at 50-100% more than Europe, US and Australia with maybe a marginal improvement in specification. That just doesn't seem right at all.

Whatever we might say about differentials in overheads, duty, VAT etc. that seems an incredible price differential - and likely down to prices being marked up more here. Business rates are high in other places too - and lots of suppliers sell non-eBikes too (or operate at low overhead). Britain is definitely a rip-off country in many sectors, not just bikes - but in a sector where volumes are low the issue is particularly problematic. Not enough turnover to generate the minimum take people want to feel it's worthwhile running a business.

 

[hech]

I think the other big difference is that many ebike businesses in the UK seem to be "one man and his dog" operations, without the volume of sales to enable them to get a good wholesale price or amortise their high overheads.

That may change once the high volume bike sales outlets start to offer reasonably good ebikes here and the market grows, but for now the UK ebike sales business seems to be very low key when compared to some other countries.

No need for that. Me and the dog are heading to Germany to buy a half priced ebike. Shall ride it home and sell it on ebay. The profit will be more than enough to cover the tour de france and my night on the Reeperbahn.

 

[hech]

This German guy buys the bike for a little more than £500 albeit with v basic spec, puts £400 rear shock and air forks on it plus hydro brakes and good gears, a chainwheel and a 48v battery, and he has a £1300 Optibike!

 

[eddieo]

I shop in Europe all the time...we are supposed to be in an open market after all. Its all about balancing the risk, there are certain e bikes I would not buy abroad because of reliability issues. if a local supplier not charging an unreasonable amount and reputation for service excellent, the cost of that service has to come from someone......

 

[mountainsport]

Reading a post on ES the other day, a chap from Germany was saying he had bought a Tonaro for 650 euros new. In Germany Tonaro bikes are marketed as Rolektro and generally available for 850euros. In the US these bikes are marketed as the RmartinR10, Gette, Igoelectric amongst others and Ive seen it advertised there for $1200.In Australia they sell as Aseako and Zoca Rossa and I believe can be bought for $1200 Aus or so, though the ones with the nu vinci gearing maybe more expensive than that.
These bikes come with varied specification but generally less good than we are used to with the Tonaro brand in the UK, however it is difficult to justify the price differential through componentry cost alone. The Tonaro Bighit is available from Powerpedals UK at £1200 and the after sales service provided by them is second to none. Now I shall say again I have nothing but praise for the UK agents Powerpedals, but I believe we are asked to pay far more than is reasonable for electric bikes in this country. It is no wonder people moan about the European union when the benefits of the single market seem to be denied to us, the UK consumer.
This is what I mean when I say that you wont find many UK ebike dealers in heaven! (if there is an exception it will be Phil at Powerpedals).

Thanks alot for that hech,a good eye opener.

Mountainsport.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I cannot speak for the Tonaro range,I don't know it that well. But I must say when we exhibited at the Utrecht 50 plus show and Velofollies,Belgium the Kudos bikes were so competitive that it was obvious that local suppliers in those countries did not want us there.
We had strong buying response from the public but we could not offer the structure required by customers-they wanted leasing contracts,maintenance contracts,theft insurance all in a monthly package which we could not offer.
But just considering price we were some 20% cheaper than the local price. However at that time the pound had parity with the euro. Since then the pound has strengthened 20% and with cross channel shipment costs our advantage has been eradicated.
We still sell to Holland and Belgium,to customers who want MTB style of bikes.
On our auto side (Rally Design) our prices in the UK are considerably cheaper than Europe and we ship to every EU country,direct to the consumer,we are always more competitive than the local supplier.
So its not a one-way street in all products.
Dave
KudosCycles and Rally Design

 

[SRS]

I think the other big difference is that many ebike businesses in the UK seem to be "one man and his dog" operations, without the volume of sales to enable them to get a good wholesale price or amortise their high overheads.

That may change once the high volume bike sales outlets start to offer reasonably good ebikes here and the market grows, but for now the UK ebike sales business seems to be very low key when compared to some other countries.

If we want higher volume UK sales and lower prices then we have to support the UK dealers.

Choose to purchase over the channel and you deny UK dealers of a sale, thereby lowering UK sales volumes and keeping the prices up.

I for one will be buying from a UK dealer. Yes, a few quid more but I,d prefer to support businesses in this country.

 

[103Alex1]

If we want higher volume UK sales and lower prices then we have to support the UK dealers.

Choose to purchase over the channel and you deny UK dealers of a sale, thereby lowering UK sales volumes and keeping the prices up.

I for one will be buying from a UK dealer. Yes, a few quid more but I,d prefer to support businesses in this country.

It may be a chicken and egg scenario, but surely the onus is not on the consumer to buy more at high prices to drive up sales volumes. If suppliers can keep selling at those prices they have no incentive to lower them.

Suppliers need to bring market asymmetries which make them uncompetitive to the Government's attention and ask for measures to help eliminate them in the domestic market. This ought not to involve taxing imports to make sure ALL prices are driven sky high either. They can also examine their manufacturing and supply chain to bring their own costs down. The smaller the price gap for consumers, the less likely they are to shop abroad. I'd speculate that if retailers (especially small ones) think that a relatively small market is already well penetrated between them, and customers are shelling out what they ask to make enough sales, they are making "enough" and will carry on doing so for as long as they can get away with it.

Another thing which has been touched on is finance. Only cash buyers have the luxury of buying abroad (unless they load a credit card and that's not always possible). Those requiring instalment payments, finance arrangements or cycle to work subsidies are stuck with undiscounted prices. Lack of affordable credit and the state of the economy go a long way to hooking buyers in to dealer sales. Customers wanting things "now" is another. And dealers know it.

So the older buyer will often want the comfort of a friendly local face and often has savings or excess free cash and is not so price sensitive. The younger buyer is often cash-strapped and could do with an instalment plan. Both are tied to a domestic retail supply chain for different reasons. Headline price in either case is not the main factor driving the buying choice. So local dealers will always have a place.

I've saved up and bought a fair amount from abroad cheap. Smartphone being a prime example (25% less cost from Hong Kong with a replacement warranty for free). Having seen the true value of "repair warranties" 1st hand over last few years (new cars being a prime example) when you come to actually call on them, learning to fix your own and buying something fixable is possibly the best sort of warranty you could ever have.

Hi

Quote removed from banned account by Admin

It really depends on the make and model of bike. I checked out prices in Europe for Kalkhoffs too and at the time I bought mine it was about the same price in Germany and quite a bit more in Holland. It's a "premium brand" thing I think. Some other makes of bike have very significant price differentials for UK vs European and further afield sales. BH bikes are an example.

 

[funkylyn]

I havent looked into the ebike price differentials in Europe in any detail, although when buying my French motorhome straight from the assembly line...... it was far cheaper in the UK than France or Spain.......however.....back to bikes

I do know the exact 'wholesale' price of a couple of makes of bikes and all I can say is with that profit margin and the layout and risk involved in stock, storage, after sales etc etc etc......there is no way I personally would consider the buying and selling of e-bikes as a sensible home for MY money.....(IF I had any )

How many ebike dealers do we see driving around in rollers for example ? ( OK OK lets leave Daves yacht out of it lolol.....he does have other business interests to pay for that )....what I mean is.... the profit margin doesnt seem to be making any ebike millionaires !


So all I can say is hats off to those dealers whose interest, passion and determination to put their money where their mouths are, mean that we have quite an eclectic range of bikes for sale in this country.....long may it last, although I do think it wont be lasting too much longer for some in this continuing difficult economy..... unfortunately.

Lynda

 

[Cakey]

Twenty years ago I lived in Austria and then Finland , the uk has always been known as Treasure Island .
This related to all manner of products .

 

[eddieo]

The rip of nature of UK business is widespread, they just price at level they can get away with. I see no reason why a bike should cost anymore here then any where else. Have posted kalkhoff sale bikes for £1200 and Bosch for £1100 so wrong to think you can't get better value if you shop around.

Cars where the same until many started importing fords from Belgium, enough anyway for prices to fall here....motorhomes can be 25% cheaper for an identical LHD vehicle, because UK dealers think they can get away with it...there are many examples

Support UK enterprise by all means, but they need to be fair and offer good service. But we simply do not get he choice of bikes available as Germany can't satisfy own market, and the better bikes in such demand they are gone on pre order..it improved end of 2012 with some real good sales, and members got some good deals from Germany, so maybe demand catching up at last, on some makes, which should lead to better pricing.

But back to he bike being discussed. UK importer just charges what he thinks the market will stand..simples. Your choice.


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kalkhoff-Tasman-City-Front-26-E-Bike-Pedelec-Elektrofahrrad-Rucktrittbremse-/251209933358?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrräder&hash=item3a7d47622e#ht_1298wt_689

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kreidler-Vitality-Elite-Shimano-Alfine-8-Gang-Pedelec-Bosch-28-45cm-/221178655573?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrräder&hash=item337f467355#ht_762wt_689


This is nice

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Corratec-e-cross-29-er-Testsieger-Bosch-e-bike-Power-statt-2699-NEU-RH-57-/130811447769?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrräder&hash=item1e74f849d9#ht_1330wt_989

 

[funkylyn]

....surely sometimes its not just ALL about money..........there are other more important things to consider.....in life...as well as in e-bikes......

Lynda

 

[jazper53]

Twenty years ago I lived in Austria and then Finland , the uk has always been known as Treasure Island .
This related to all manner of products .

If i remember correctly, 'Treasure Island' was frequented by a bunch of cut-throat Pirates, sadly in this case its not the prices they are cutting.