The great british e-bike scam

[banbury frank]

Hi If Britain is such a rip off why did we but 2 million new cars last year in the UK

If we all buy abroad NOT UK then you wont Have a JOB to worry about buying any goods

My company buy in raw materials from China and Adds value with UK employed staff and suppliers

As do other advertisers on the Forum


Frank

 

[jazper53]

Hi If Britain is such a rip off why did we but 2 million new cars last year in the UK

If we all buy abroad NOT UK then you wont Have a JOB to worry about buying any goods

My company buy in raw materials from China and Adds value with UK employed staff and suppliers

As do other advertisers on the Forum


Frank

There is no 'IF' about it, the fact has been well documented over the decades and little has changed for the poor British consumer.

 

[Cyclezee]

If anyone can find an eZee bike from the curret range at a lower equivalent Sterling retail price anywhere on the planet than from Cyclezee I will give that person £100

 

[Jeremy]

It seems to centre on the margins that have become accepted as "normal" here in the UK, versus the margins that are accepted as normal elsewhere.

Take ebike parts, for example. If you ground ship parts from the Far East (as any retailer here will do) then the cost is really pretty low. A complete 1000W plus kit, with 48V 10Ah battery pack and charger, would cost around $750 (~£500), maybe less in larger quantities, direct from China. Surface shipping would only add a few pounds per kit if a reasonable quantity were purchased. Duty would add around 5 or 6%, so the landed price here in the UK would be somewhere around £550.

The question then is, what's a reasonable mark up? It seems that 90% to 100% is a figure used by many in the UK, so the landed price ends up as a core retail price (ex-VAT) of around £1000 or so. Add in VAT and the price increases to around £1200.

Such a kit retails in Canada (including a Cycle Analyst as the display) for $1270, or ~£850, with excellent after market technical support. This is the sort of price that a kit like this should retail for here in the UK.

 

[jazper53]

If anyone can find an eZee bike from the curret range at a lower equivalent Sterling retail price anywhere on the planet than from Cyclezee I will give that person £100

Maybe one should ask if one could find the model type and = spec., anywhere in the world more expensive ?

 

[Old_Dave]

Its easy to diss...

The gates are always open for anyone to jump into the market place, start a business and do it cheaper

There are more costs / expenses involved than most peeps will ever realize and I for one cherish the day I got out of retailing and providing a service to the public at large

 

[Kudoscycles]

It seems to centre on the margins that have become accepted as "normal" here in the UK, versus the margins that are accepted as normal elsewhere.

Take ebike parts, for example. If you ground ship parts from the Far East (as any retailer here will do) then the cost is really pretty low. A complete 1000W plus kit, with 48V 10Ah battery pack and charger, would cost around $750 (~£500), maybe less in larger quantities, direct from China. Surface shipping would only add a few pounds per kit if a reasonable quantity were purchased. Duty would add around 5 or 6%, so the landed price here in the UK would be somewhere around £550.

The question then is, what's a reasonable mark up? It seems that 90% to 100% is a figure used by many in the UK, so the landed price ends up as a core retail price (ex-VAT) of around £1000 or so. Add in VAT and the price increases to around £1200.

Such a kit retails in Canada (including a Cycle Analyst as the display) for $1270, or ~£850, with excellent after market technical support. This is the sort of price that a kit like this should retail for here in the UK.

Jeremy,if only the numbers were so simple and for some traders they are.....the chinese have a not too complimentary name for one-timer purchasers that they can sell a container load to....these guys do same calculations as yours but when they proceed they find a whole load of additional costs that they have failed to include.
A typical e-bike from the chinese might quote as follows..
Cost price....$450.00
Shipping.......$30.00
Duty,6%.......$27.00
Landed UK ....£338.00
Dealer profit..£200.00
Effective cost to importer....£538.00
Sale price,incl vat........£845.00
Sale price,excl vat.......£704.17
Profit.........£166.17
Out of that profit must come courier shipping to customer or dealer,PDI inspection,allowance for warranty,warehousing costs,product and public liability insurance,rates,rent,marketing etc etc.
From that original cost of £338.00 with an rrp of £845.00,it looks like good numbers but it soon gets eroded on the way,hence one-timer e-bike sellers often stay one-timer.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

Yep....theres no such thing as a free lunch and people have to realise that good customer service comes at a price that must be paid for.

You and me both Dave.....now I just spend my time trying to grow old as disgracefully, eccentrically and interestingly as I possibly can......

Lynda

 

[Old_Dave]

Out of that profit must come

Tip of the iceberg Dave

And god forbid you employ staff with the slings and arrows that are involved / have a repairing lease / turn on the lights / heat the premises / bank charges / pay your self / accountant fees / trade association fees

These things and many many more that all demand slices of your pie before you even make it.

 

[Jeremy]

Jeremy,if only the numbers were so simple and for some traders they are.....the chinese have a not too complimentary name for one-timer purchasers that they can sell a container load to....these guys do same calculations as yours but when they proceed they find a whole load of additional costs that they have failed to include.
A typical e-bike from the chinese might quote as follows..
Cost price....$450.00
Shipping.......$30.00
Duty,6%.......$27.00
Landed UK ....£338.00
Dealer profit..£200.00
Effective cost to importer....£538.00
Sale price,incl vat........£845.00
Sale price,excl vat.......£704.17
Profit.........£166.17
Out of that profit must come courier shipping to customer or dealer,PDI inspection,allowance for warranty,warehousing costs,product and public liability insurance,rates,rent,marketing etc etc.
From that original cost of £338.00 with an rrp of £845.00,it looks like good numbers but it soon gets eroded on the way,hence one-timer e-bike sellers often stay one-timer.
Dave
Kudoscycles

But I was specifically referring to ebike kits being sold by long established vendors, rather than complete bikes being sold by fly-by-nights.

The example I gave was a reasonable one, Grin Cyclery in Canada sell a good quality Nine Continents complete kit, with one of the best controllers available and arguably the best display system available too, for $475. They will also supply an excellent 48V 10Ah battery pack, with charger, for $795. They provide first rate support and technical advice, and yet still manage to sell this type of kit for a price that is significantly less than the price being asked for similar kits being sold here in the UK.

Why can a small Canadian company, with a handful of staff, buy in parts from China, add value by undertaking quality checks and their own integrated display unit, provide good customer support, pay taxes, duty etc, yet sell this kit for several hundred pounds less than a similar company in the UK?

 

[flecc]

Sometimes the pricing discrepancies are due to the type of business of the vendor. If the supplier depends solely on e-bike and/or kit sales and the market is small and seasonal as ours is, high margins an be necessary for year round survival.

Conversely, a successful cycle dealer selling e-bikes and/or kits as a part of their business can retail at lower margins since they have multiple revenue streams. In an even more extreme example, a retailer like SportsUK can sell e-bikes with tiny margins and can even sell them at zero profit as loss-leaders, since they are only a very small part of their trading.

 

[tillson]

The battery on my Kalkhoff bike is likely to need replacing in the not to distant future. I will then face a choice of either buying it directly from Germany for £383 delivered or buying the identical battery in the UK for £525 plus delivery.

Some on here seem to advocate that I should hand the UK retailer the extra £142 as some sort of benevolent act based on the premiss that UK retailers only have access to a very small market. The thinking then being that when the retailer has made enough money, he or she will then reciprocate the kindness shown from the UK customer by only charging them the same as the Germans do for the same goods.

Well, I have another proposition. UK retailers, you charge me the same amount as the Germans do for the same goods and you can have my business. There you go, a strategy for increased sales volume.


Message for Banbury Frank. Words like Supplier and Build are in the spell checker, but you continually manage to fight it off. Submit to it for heaven's sake.

 

[eddieo]

Tillson lots of them on german ebay no need to fret..its only money after all

8 Ah from £135 + P

 

[Kudoscycles]

The battery on my Kalkhoff bike is likely to need replacing in the not to distant future. I will then face a choice of either buying it directly from Germany for £383 delivered or buying the identical battery in the UK for £525 plus delivery.

Some on here seem to advocate that I should hand the UK retailer the extra £142 as some sort of benevolent act based on the premiss that UK retailers only have access to a very small market. The thinking then being that when the retailer has made enough money, he or she will then reciprocate the kindness shown of the customer by only charging them the same as the Germans do for the same goods.

Well, I have another proposition. UK retailers, you charge me the same amount as the Germans do for the same goods and you can have my business. There you go, a strategy for increased sales growth.

Message for Banbury Frank. Words like Supplier and Build are in the spell checker, but you continually manage to fight it off. Submit to it for heavans sake.

When we sold those BH Emotion bikes,I made an enquiry to Bosch as to how much a replacement 8 Ah battery....about £450.00 with absolutely no trade discount,to keep things reasonably priced had we needed to supply a new battery I would have charged it at cost. These high battery prices are not the fault of the UK retailer,they are what Bosch and their like are charging for spares.
It was the reason why from day one,Kudos decided not to look for high profits on replacement batteries ,our low battery prices(the latest Arriba and Ibex bikes,10Ah Samsung battery-£198.00 incl vat) is a good selling feature on our bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

for heavans sake.

LOL......hmmmm....good one......

Lynda

 

[tillson]

LOL......hmmmm....good one......

Lynda

You have got me there!

 

[flecc]

The battery on my Kalkhoff bike is likely to need replacing in the not to distant future. I will then face a choice of either buying it directly from Germany for £383 delivered or buying the identical battery in the UK for £525 plus delivery.

In fairness it's not a level playing field. The German ebay supplier often has this as a sideline to his main domestic business as I was illustrating above, or doesn't have any other business having costs of maintenance.

The UK supplier here is solely dependent on their e-bike related sales to support them, their premises and their after sales service year round.

Delivering very low prices for anything via ebay is easy.

 

[tillson]

When we sold those BH Emotion bikes,I made an enquiry to Bosch as to how much ea replacement 8 Ah battery....about £450.00 with absolutely no trade discount,to keep things reasonably priced had we needed to supply a new battery I would have charged it at cost. These high battery prices are not the fault of the UK retailer,they are what Bosch and their like are charging for spares.
It was the reason why from day one,Kudos decided not to look for high profits on replacement batteries ,our low battery prices(the latest Arriba and Ibex bikes,10Ah Samsung battery-£198.00 incl vat) is a good selling feature on our bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Are you suggesting that German manufacturers charge a higher wholesale price to UK companies than they do to their domestic market customers?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It was the reason why from day one,Kudos decided not to look for high profits on replacement batteries ,our low battery prices(the latest Arriba and Ibex bikes,10Ah Samsung battery-£198.00 incl vat) is a good selling feature on our bikes.
Dave
Kudoscycles

I know that you've said before that you only stock these spares to support your own bikes, but there could be a bit of demand for those bottle batteries with decent cells, so it might be worth ordering a few extra since they will fit on most bikes as a replacement/upgrade.

 

[Jeremy]

Sometimes the pricing discrepancies are due to the type of business of the vendor. If the supplier depends solely on e-bike and/or kit sales and the market is small and seasonal as ours is, high margins an be necessary for year round survival.

Conversely, a successful cycle dealer selling e-bikes and/or kits as a part of their business can retail at lower margins since they have multiple revenue streams. In an even more extreme example, a retailer like SportsUK can sell e-bikes with tiny margins and can even sell them at zero profit as loss-leaders, since they are only a very small part of their trading.

I accept this, but again the example I chose was an ebike only business that only (at the moment) sells ebike parts and kits, not complete bikes. Grin Cyclery in Canada have been doing OK and have grown their business considerably over the past few years, despite selling at prices that are well below the equivalent prices from one or two UK suppliers.

Despite all I've read in defence of UK pricing policies, I cannot understand why a small, dedicated ebike business, operating in a fairly expensive large city in Canada, should be any different to a similar business selling similar products (from the same sources) here in the UK. After all, they have premises, taxes, salaries, duty, technical support costs and all the other myriad costs that afflict a small business, just as any similar UK small business would have.