The dongle re-visited

[SRS]

Trex, that's yet another irrelevant, inconsequential statement you have made and I have now reached a point where, if you assured me the Pope is catholic, I'd seek a second opinion as well as search the internet for reassurance.

Tom

Tom, I agree with Trex on many points but your comments do put a smile on my face.

 

[Alan Quay]

Trex, that's yet another irrelevant, inconsequential statement you have made and I have now reached a point where, if you assured me the Pope is catholic, I'd seek a second opinion as well as search the internet for reassurance.

Tom

Thanks old Tom, you have just enabled me to win an argument with my Father.

My Dad is not very net savvy but he looked at a forum once. He predicted that all conversations would degenerate into abuse within 10 'pages'. He went on to say that you will know when this has happened, because a contributor will mention Jesus, Hitler, John Lennon or the Pope.

Of course, I told him he was talking rubbish. It's closer to 15 pages.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Someone made the comment earlier that I hadn't made any contribution to this thread. Just come back from my holiday ,during which I rode one of my own bikes every day,the Greek Islands are just made for e-bikes with wonderful relatively flat sea side rides with the occasional steep hill to access them. One of the marine chandlers has decided to stock most of the Kudos range and sold 14 bikes to boat owners in one afternoon,saw a lot of e-bikes on Corfu.
To come back to this thread,which lets be honest has been flogged to death and I suspect will never truly be decided.
My attitude is now very practical,although I suspect it will not be universally agreed with.
I only sell legal bikes,albeit with a 250 watt limit encompassing the governments stated allowance not to prosecute up to 250 watt.
It appears to me that Pedelecs members fall into 3 camps
1) Those that want a legal e-bike....the Kudos and KTM bikes that we sell all meet EN15194 so they are legal.
2) Those that want to eliminate the 15,5 mph cutoff to a point that the cutoff is moved away from their common riding speed.....the Kudos bikes-Arriba,Tornado,Typhoon and Escape models with the King Display and BPM motor combination are delivered with the default setting of 15,5 mph (25 kph),ie legal. But with some button pushing on the display the cutoff speed can be increased,up to the limit of the motor speed,such a change is a conscious decision by the owner with the knowledge that it makes the bike illegal. But,you don't have to buy a dongle,and the hardware of the bike remains unchanged.This answers the desire for owners who want to derestrict with the least likely chance of ever being spotted. However,it cannot offer 28 mph speed.
3) Those that will buy an e-bike with the maximum speed and power available,they don't care about legality or otherwise. For them the 28 mph x 350 watt S class bikes seem to be ideal. Obviously completely illegal but that seems of no concern to those owners.
Whatever camp you subscribe to I think there is little doubt that all Pedelecs members are aware of the differences and we all just accept that we all have a different view on this matter,at times somewhat emotional.
For me and Kudos we will continue to sell legal e-bikes but leave it to customers decisions as to whether they wish to change the legality status,that seems a sensible but commercial stance.
KudosDave

 

[fishingpaul]

Mopeds have been restricted by law for many years now to 30mph,following the super moped years when 50mph ride at sixteen mopeds were the latest craze ,deristriction would obviously void insurance etc,but it soon became a common practice, that bike sellers usually offered to derestrict the bikes at the first service.this has gone on for probably twenty years now,at one time there were thousands of youngsters tearing around on souped up noisy scooters,and im sure involved in many accidents,i do not recall seing any cases of charges for riding illegal bikes,or of void insurance costing the rider anything,or the police or any other authority mounting any sort of action, against 50cc mopeds or the common practice of motor cycle sellers de restricting or selling upgraded exhausts etc to enable them to go faster.so i doubt the older generation seeking to achieve a derestricted 20 mph, whilst also pedalling to get there will concern anybody.apart from tedious tom and the ever so boring ktm bike seller of course.if you ask for legal advice you will always be given the absolute worst case scenario,thats why life is so boring now,risk assesment stops everything fun.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Mopeds have been restricted by law for many years now to 30mph,following the super moped years when 50mph ride at sixteen mopeds were the latest craze ,deristriction would obviously void insurance etc,but it soon became a common practice, that bike sellers usually offered to derestrict the bikes at the first service.this has gone on for probably twenty years now,at one time there were thousands of youngsters tearing around on souped up noisy scooters,and im sure involved in many accidents,i do not recall seing any cases of charges for riding illegal bikes,or of void insurance costing the rider anything,or the police or any other authority mounting any sort of action, against 50cc mopeds or the common practice of motor cycle sellers de restricting or selling upgraded exhausts etc to enable them to go faster.so i doubt the older generation seeking to achieve a derestricted 20 mph, whilst also pedalling to get there will concern anybody.apart from tedious tom and the ever so boring ktm bike seller of course.if you ask for legal advice you will always be given the absolute worst case scenario,thats why life is so boring now,risk assesment stops everything fun.

You're right. My neighbour's boy has recently turned 16, so he got himself a 50cc motorbike that had already been derestricted. He now has a gang of motorcycling mates. I was surprised when he told me that they all ride derestricted 50cc bikes.

 

[D8ve]

I have to disagree with KudosDave here. The sclass is not ideal for the speed freaks. 350watts is for wooses if it isn't KW and uphill @30 with no pedalling it's not cool.

I'm with the dull folks on the subject. Get a moped for this.
a bike is classed as a bike only if restricted to ....
We have a system that let's us play without needing MOT insurance etc.
if we take the **** then the papers will start a witch hunt and the police will have to look closely at any bike.
Then things will get difficult for every one.
Fined for pavement use . It happens already.
Cycling furiously, can happen.
Done for using an unlicensed motor vehicle. It happens all the time. It's not for derestricting a pedelec because that isn't a crime.

Dull Dave.

 

[Backin5]

Mopeds have been restricted by law for many years now to 30mph,following the super moped years when 50mph ride at sixteen mopeds were the latest craze ,deristriction would obviously void insurance etc,but it soon became a common practice, that bike sellers usually offered to derestrict the bikes at the first service.this has gone on for probably twenty years...

But these vehicles are not allowed on canal tow paths and other spaces shared with pedestrians, dogs, small children. And they are very noisey - you can hear them coming from far away and react. This is the big difference with 30 mph pedlecs, they are an accident waiting to happen.

I've said this about 5 times now, why is nobody getting it? The elephant in the room?

 

[Gubbins]

Nobody getting it? That's because your not saying what I for one want to hear. The last thing I want to do is tear about at dangerous speeds, I did all that in my youth and all I want now is to be able to move the cut off up a bit, 2 or 3 mph would suit me. So you can say it another 5 times it won't make any difference and I will continue to try and find a way do it that suits me. My choice!

 

[tillson]

I've said this about 5 times now, why is nobody getting it? The elephant in the room?

1) Selfishness

2) Plain stupid and don't understand.

3) Type of character that is comfortable systematically breaking the law.

4) Want the benefits of motor vehicle ownership, but unwilling to accept full responsibility and pay for them.

There may be more, but these are the main reasons.

 

[trex]

2) Plain stupid and don't understand.

I can't dispute points 1, 3 and 4 but have you tried a derestricted (but previously legal) crank drive bike before you form this opinion or come to this conclusion?

 

[Backin5]

Nobody getting it? That's because your not saying what I for one want to hear. The last thing I want to do is tear about at dangerous speeds, I did all that in my youth and all I want now is to be able to move the cut off up a bit, 2 or 3 mph would suit me. So you can say it another 5 times it won't make any difference and I will continue to try and find a way do it that suits me. My choice!

Which is pretty much how I feel it myself actually. It's risky where some people may draw the line though, and the concequences of that.

Interestingly, my BH Neo Xtrem seems to assist up to 32kph with lots of peddling. Any quicker than that and I really do feel in many circumstances I'd be at much higher risk than on a slower bike.

 

[tillson]

have you tried a derestricted (but previously legal) crank drive bike before you form this opinion or come to this conclusion?

The original question was concerning why some people don't get the illegal nature of derestricted bikes and the problems that they can cause.

I wonder if it was just coincidence that you chose option 2?

And yes, I derestricted my bike by altering the gearing. I found that it assisted me beyond 15 mph.

 

[trex]

no, it's not coincidence. It's just a matter of common sense. If my next door neighbour smokes canabis now and then, should I report him / her to the police? no. And have you ever gone over 75mph on the M25?
I think the majority sees my point of view and I would not criticize people who choose differently. Dongles are sold and fitted only to legal bikes. People who buy legal bikes are generally law abiding citizens. If you call them selfish, fair enough but 'plain stupid' they are not.
we should also examine the role of the suppliers of e-bikes in making 'high performance' bikes that require a speed limiter to make them legal.

 

[oldtom]

I think the majority sees my point of view

There's a guy on ebay selling straws and he's doing good business right now to some England football fans. If you're quick Trex , you might be able to bid successfully for one.

Tom

 

[tillson]

no, it's not coincidence. It's just a matter of common sense. If my next door neighbour smokes canabis now and then, should I report him / her to the police? no. And have you ever gone over 75mph on the M25?
I think the majority sees my point of view and I would not criticize people who choose differently. Dongles are sold and fitted only to legal bikes. People who buy legal bikes are generally law abiding citizens. If you call them selfish, fair enough but 'plain stupid' they are not.
we should also examine the role of the suppliers of e-bikes in making 'high performance' bikes that require a speed limiter to make them legal.

In your world, law breaking may be common sense, in mine and many other's it isn't. It's rather unpleasent.

 

[trex]

In your world, law breaking may be common sense, in mine and many other's it isn't. It's rather unpleasent.

that'd explain your Newtonian mind.

by the way, your application of Newtonian mechanics in the helmet thread was a bit over simplistic. The brain and the skull are deformable objects, and you also need to take into account skidding at the point of impact and subsequent oscillations.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The brain works at a quantum level anyway.

 

[Kudoscycles]

My Kudos Secret bike cuts out at 15,5 mph. It doesn't hit a wall,sometimes its a few seconds before I realise I am doing all the work. But there is a benefit to this,I tend to ride slower,I have time to look at the world around me,I spot the wildlife,hear the birds,enjoy life....I get more out of my bike riding than pure speed.
Chilled out,KudosDave

 

[Artstu]

But there is a benefit to this,I tend to ride slower,I have time to look at the world around me,I spot the wildlife,hear the birds,enjoy life....I get more out of my bike riding than pure speed.

You don't need an electric bike to do that, in fact your enjoyment could increase even more if you ditched the e-bike and rode a normal bicycle

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hmmm!. I don't find it very enjoyable gasping for breath half-way up a hill. I bet it's the same for Dave since he's approximately the same size, age and weight as me, and he has the same name.