The dongle re-visited

[EddiePJ]

Add a bit for off road competition and remove it for on road...

Out of interest, what off road competition?

I'm assuming that you must be just talking about off road fun with a few mates on private land, rather than at organised mtb events?

The use off dongles at organised mtb events held on land that has public access and rights of way, is something that I feel is going to wreck any chance of e-mtb's ever being accepted at events such as the Wiggle rides etc that I take part in. It's enough of a battle as it is trying to win public support, and having someone tear pass on an e-mtb at disproportionally high speed is quickly going to spoil any chance of acceptance. Then there is insurance liability and legal issues for the event organisers to be considered.
This is enough of a concern to me, that I'm already in the early stages of discussions with event organisers, to have separate rules set out for e-mtb's in which bikes fitted with dongles and or not supported by a certificate of conformity shall be banned.

 

[Gubbins]

Out of interest, what off road competition?

I'm assuming that you must be just talking about off road fun with a few mates on private land, rather than at organised mtb events?

The use off dongles at organised mtb events held on land that has public access and rights of way, is something that I feel is going to wreck any chance of e-mtb's ever being accepted at events such as the Wiggle rides etc that I take part in. It's enough of a battle as it is trying to win public support, and having someone tear pass on an e-mtb at disproportionally high speed is quickly going to spoil any chance of acceptance. Then there is insurance liability and legal issues for the event organisers to be considered.
This is enough of a concern to me, that I'm already in the early stages of discussions with event organisers, to have separate rules set out for e-mtb's in which bikes fitted with dongles and or not supported by a certificate of conformity shall be banned.

I do respect your position and a lot of my comments are because it's of interest to me rather than something I intend to pursue. Having said that a few weeks ago I came across another e-bike but couldn't catch him up to have a look. I can pedal up to 20mph for a short distance but he just sailed away without pedaling! This is the person likely to give e-biking a bad name.
And to finish I presume that you do not sell bikes with a higher power output for any use at all then?

 

[OxygenJames]

I keep considering the dongle but don't want to risk getting in trouble with the boys in blue, but having said that it would be nice to have it available at the flick of a switch. Now I am not an engineer or technician, more a professional bodjer so excuse my ignorance.
It would seem that there are 2 types of dongle.. The matchbox that fits over the wheel sensor and does its thing, and the wired in jobby that has a removable jack plug. I think I read somewhere that you can extend this plug using a headphone extension cable and if so would it be a case of simply intrupting this cable with a switch?

I've got mine on a short extension cable that ends just below where the forks start. This way when I go off-roading I dont have to stop I can just lean down and plug it in it having carried it in my pocket (though it could of course accidently fall out of that pocket). Then of course when I re-join her Majesties road-network I lean down once more and put it back in my pocket though sometimes I forget. Oops.

 

[Gubbins]

I've got mine on a short extension cable that ends just below where the forks start. This way when I go off-roading I dont have to stop I can just lean down and plug it in it having carried it in my pocket (though it could of course accidently fall out of that pocket). Then of course when I re-join her Majesties road-network I lean down once more and put it back in my pocket though sometimes I forget. Oops.

Use it like the jet ski crowd perhaps!

 

[OxygenJames]

I grasp that illegal is illegal, but the Bosch dongle has a comparatively weedy impact on the speed of the bike.

I wouldn't want a member on here to buy one thinking it will turn their bike into a road rocket - it won't.

My Rose is not a quick bike anyway, but even dongled it needs a fair bit of pedalling to get it above 20mph.

Huh? Weedy impact? Are you kidding? Not on my Haibike Xduro FS RX Pro supplied by the excellent Crank Cycles (you know the account number Martin). Weedy? Sheesh. No way.

[OK - now at this point I was going to insert a picture of my bike seeing as its so God Darn Pretty - but if you click on that image icon above it asks for a URL and does not let you add an image from my computer and for the life of me I can't work out how to do it from the buttons above. Surely its possible or maybe not with this new all singing all dancing web-site I see we have now - any suggestions?]

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I've got mine on a short extension cable that ends just below where the forks start. This way when I go off-roading I dont have to stop I can just lean down and plug it in it having carried it in my pocket (though it could of course accidently fall out of that pocket). Then of course when I re-join her Majesties road-network I lean down once more and put it back in my pocket though sometimes I forget. Oops.

just so you are aware, on or offroad makes no difference... its still public rights of way, so you're taking just as much risk using a bike without restriction offroad as you are on. In fact the chance of coming across a horse or a group of walkers at speed could even be worse for the image of cyclists and the access rights we face already offroad if these unrestricted bikes start becoming common.

There is already concerns in the mtb industry about offroad mtb and the impact they will have, unrestricted offroad mtb, when the industry starts to realise it exists is going to cause all kinds of nightmares to the establishment.

 

[OxygenJames]

just so you are aware, on or offroad makes no difference... its still public rights of way, so you're taking just as much risk using a bike without restriction offroad as you are on. In fact the chance of coming across a horse or a group of walkers at speed could even be worse for the image of cyclists and the access rights we face already offroad if these unrestricted bikes start becoming common.

There is already concerns in the mtb industry about offroad mtb and the impact they will have, unrestricted offroad mtb, when the industry starts to realise it exists is going to cause all kinds of nightmares to the establishment.

Sure. I dont know who wrote that above. I think somebody hacked into my account. I would never use a Dongle. I dont know Martin at Crank Cycles and I dont even own an Electric bike.

 

[OxygenJames]

And I still can't figure out how to upload an image from my computer to a post of mine....................

 

[EddiePJ]

And I still can't figure out how to upload an image from my computer to a post of mine....................

It's a Haibike, so that's probably a good thing! Spare us all the agony of it.
(only joking)

Upload the image to say photobucket or imageshack, then copy and paste the image code onto here, removing everything before and after the brackets img and /img It should then post up okay.

And to finish I presume that you do not sell bikes with a higher power output for any use at all then?

Thanks Phil. As much as I am seriously considering changing my career towards selling e-bikes, and also potentially using them for organised off road tours, it's not something that I currently do.

 

[D C]

just so you are aware, on or offroad makes no difference... its still public rights of way, so you're taking just as much risk using a bike without restriction offroad as you are on.

Do you ever get the feeling that no ones listening!

 

[jdallan]

I wonder if they'll restrict this one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27926348

Jim

 

[Wander]

Think it's the first time I've seen a 100+ post thread which KudosDave hasn't contributed to!

Anyway, anybody got an opinion on dongles?

 

[Kuorider]

The real risk is that some tearaway will kill someone and hasty blanket legislation will cripple or ban ebikes so that the government will be seen to be taking action. Then we will all have expensive junk. A little motorbike must make more sense than a big ebike .

 

[oldtom]

I wonder if they'll restrict this one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27926348

Jim

Nice!

Tom

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Do you ever get the feeling that no ones listening!

it doesn't really matter - there are lots of people who read this who don't contribute and if even just one, learns something.... changes their mind about buying a bike that isn't UK road legal and buys a bike from a company or brand who is playing by the rules (doesn't have to be KTM) then I'll be a happy man.

plus every time Trex posts some total nonsense it needs someone to post the correct facts underneath it so that anyone reading this or any other thread realises that just he's not always making a whole lot of sense.

 

[trex]

The real risk is that some tearaway will kill someone and hasty blanket legislation will cripple or ban ebikes so that the government will be seen to be taking action. Then we will all have expensive junk. A little motorbike must make more sense than a big ebike .

don't assume that a dongle is going to give your bike extra power because it doesn't. The power at you disposal is exactly the same without the dongle. Most legal bikes have a motor typically capable of 250W-350W (eg Bosch), some bikes (eg Panasonic in the KTM P) have a little more poke than others but in general, if you have a dongle fitted you have to put in pedal power for the difference between what is needed and what the manufacturer gives to you.
So, let's keep this debate about the legality of riding a bike with a dongle fitted rather than predicting dire consequences for those who chose to possess a dongle.
My personal opinion: "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" - quite a few posts on this thread are OTT.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

My personal opinion: "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" - quite a few posts on this thread are OTT.

this post is my personal opinion and not those of KTM or indeed FLi Distribution although I suspect they might agree with me.....

Trex, you are fool, and with access to a keyboard a potentially dangerous one.

one can not seriously be using the "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" argument, to defend breaking any law.

we live in a modern society where rules are passed for the good of the community of the whole, just because you don't agree with one, doesn't mean you can woefully flaunt it, just because the people chastising (and trying to educate) you might have once, god-forbid had a parking ticket.

Just as I'm perfectly entitled to be 100% intolerant of bike thieves, despite the fact that I once stole a mars bar whilst doing my paper round.

if you want to say... "I know using my un restricted bike in the UK is breaking the law and putting the industry and other users of the road / paths at risk, whilst also opening myself up to a large potential liability in event of an accident, but frankly I couldn't give a sh"t, and I'm prepared to take the risk" at least have the balls to say it and stop making up lame excuses.

At least then we might all leave you alone, and stop highlighting the holes in your defense.

So, let's keep this debate about the legality of riding a bike with a dongle fitted

there isn't anything to debate about this.... de restricting an eBIke makes it illegal to be used in the UK.

That's not something that can be debated!!!!

 

[trex]

if we put this matter to a poll, we shall see what the majority thinks.

What is your opinion about people who ride a bike fitted with a dongle?

1. I report them
2. I don't give a damn

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

how is that even relevant to this discussion.... especially when the discussion is on an eBike forum???

How about you email Greater London Police and ask them? Or contact a solictor and ask them? Or ask a UK brand of eBikes... maybe like KTM and ask them for their considered opinion. Would you listen to any of those groups, or would you prefer to "do a bit of internet research"?

you don't seem to understand what using a de-restricted eBike in the UK even means in terms of the implications to the cycling community as a whole or the rider as an individual should they be involved in a serious accident.

I'm not talking about getting caught just riding a long. I'm talking about being involved in an accident that involves a fatality in a city centre, or a large multi vehicle pile up, with large insurance implications? You just don't seem to understand what everyone is trying to explain to you?

 

[RobF]

[quote="KTM Bike Industries UK, post: 223777, member: 8115"

(Trex) you are fool, and with access to a keyboard a potentially dangerous one.
[/quote]

(Insert the name of any forum member)