Spot the difference...

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Ok now I'm confused. I've seen a photo of the bike that another UK Ebike manufacturer walked away from at the turn of the century and it looks exactly like your "Wisper" bike. The point is, this was before you bought it???

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong advocate of ebiking and I think reliable cross-UK supported brands like yourself are a key part of the success of ebiking, but the design that we think of as "Wisper" existed way before you decided to buy that bike. You may have tweaked it since then but, to be honest, I can't see the difference between the original Chinese incarnation and your latest incarnation (components aside).
Hi Caph, sorry but it didn't, we designed the original. It did not exist until we designed it. I am not sure how many ways I can put this but we sat down and drew the original and others have copied us. My huge mistake was to take the first page on the Made In China web pages, a lot of Chinese factories seeing the bike made a copy. Exactly which bike are you saying preceded us with our design?

Best regards

David
 

Wisper Bikes

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Well spotted, I'm confident my memory of events is correct. The truth of the matter is, the Wisper 905e was in fact a copy of the original "Knight rider", albeit with a Hydro-formed top-tube to replace the welded gusset head-stock of the original.

It appears one of the benefits of being a Managing Director is the entitlement to re-write history.

Mark Rao was an employee of the newly formed Wisper Bikes, but shortly after his leaving the company it was discovered 250 Wisper 905e frames went missing, these subsequently being marketed by Mark Rao under his own brand name.

I also distinctly remember the first Wisper 905e machines being offered for sale through Wispers Ebay shop. At that time I became interested in the 905's...a breath of fresh air when compared to some of the stodgey stuff available at that time. As it turned out, I waited until the 905 evolved into the 905se in 2008 before purchasing....and I wasn't dissapointed the first time I rode it.
Hi Blew it, Mark Rao never worked for Wisper bikes and was never asked to.

The Knight Rider was a copy of the original Wisper bike. Mark Rao was a salesman for the company that bought out the factory that made the original Wisper 905 for Wisper UK. He managed to buy a number of Wisper's original frames through the back door of this factory. He made up the bikes and sold them, then went on to make more frames, I think he has gone bust now. The original Wisper bike was designed and built in 2004/5 and had nothing to do with Mark Rao.

Dick Lai, used to work with Mark Rao and we did employ Dick, who is still working for us.

I must say that I am absolutely delighted that the Wisper 905 frame has become iconic and the subject of so much discussion. Please understand am not being deceitful, the bike really did not exist until we made the first one. I was there, this is not hear say! I am very proud of Wisper's history and would never even consider re-writing it!! :)

All the best

David

Forgot to say, the original frame was hydroformed and the welded version was simply a cheap copy.
 
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Wisper Bikes

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Thanks for your kind comments on the original 905e Blew it! At the time it was actually quite radical! I don't remember an Ebay shop but we did experiment with Ebay in the early days, before we started to take on dealers. That, all of a sudden was a long time ago! Do you remember the cow competition?! That photo was taken at my daughter's school, since then Amy finished school, went through 6th form, went to Leeds for he BA then a year in London for her MA and has worked for Sattchi and another agency for more than a year!! Time really does fly when you are having fun! :)

All the best

David
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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the factory that made the original Wisper 905 for Wisper UK. .
That would be WEVCO. :)

The 2008 905se that Blew it recalls I remember appearing as a display prototype in Summer 2007 at New Milton, its first pre-production announcement to the public.
 

Old_Dave

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Sep 15, 2012
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Found on the internettywebby a item that's dated well before this thread and David (Mr Wisper) couldn't massage :rolleyes:

About Wisper:

Wisper are a manufacturer and international distributor of electric bicycles. Combining the latest technology and unique frame design, they aspire to give consumers a different offering. Wisper offer a range of power-on-demand and pedal assist bicycles.


By using the very highest quality materials, such as magnesium and strong aviation alloys, Wisper build extraordinarily lightweight, robust and resilient products. All Wisper bikes go through rigorous 104 point quality control inspection, all undergo individual road testing as part of this QC procedure. All Wisper bikes have been tested and now conform to the new European EN15194 regulations.


Wisper bikes was founded in 2004 to engineer a perfect electric bike, one that would cycle well, look good and retain the ‘cycle’ feel even under power. In April 2005 the first Wisper 905e prototype was delivered. The Wisper 905e has now become one, if not the most highly regarded electric bikes in the UK.


Wisper do not sell bikes directly to the general public, as they believe that like a car or motor-bike, electric bikes need to be regularly serviced by a local dealer. Today Wisper has a strong dealer network in the UK and international sales in seventeen countries, from Norway to New Zealand. The Wisper service is legendary and their stable of bikes has grown from the single 905e to a range of nine bikes, including the new carbon matrix Wisper 906xc Tourer which has become another highly regarded icon in its own class.


Now, in 2010, Wisper opens the availability of e-bikes to a much wider audience with the introduction of the D a a H u b[SUP]TM[/SUP] e-bike conversion kit. Following Wisper’s well established philosophy of retaining a real ‘cycling’ experience, D a a H u b[SUP]TM[/SUP] is an easy fit, modular design, ‘Plug n Play’ e-bike kit to provide the extra boost of an electric motor without changing the behaviour of the original bike. D a a H u b[SUP]TM[/SUP] is designed to fit 90% of all bicycle makes and types.
So are there any photos of 905 'clones' before April 2005 ?

info from http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http://electricbikes.org.uk/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/10-09-03%20Atmosphere%20Bristol%20PR%20Hill%20Challenge%20(draft).doc&ei=8beTUJ63EsnO0QXZ34CQCA&usg=AFQjCNGqxeTQpompRDnywhG598oMLEtrPA&cad=rja

The truth is out there.. just a case of needing a very large spade to dig through the ****
 
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Wisper Bikes

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That would be WEVCO. :)

The 2008 905se that Blew it recalls I remember appearing as a display prototype in Summer 2007 at New Milton, its first pre-production announcement to the public.
Thanks Flecc, I remember the day well!

WEVCO (Wisper Electric Vehicle Co) was the original business name. WEVCO was closed and Wisper Ltd was formed when Douglas Lawson invested in the business.

All the best

David
 

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Found on the internettywebby a item that's dated well before this thread and David (Mr Wisper) couldn't massage :rolleyes:



So are there any photos of 905 'clones' before April 2005 ?

info from http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http://electricbikes.org.uk/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/10-09-03%20Atmosphere%20Bristol%20PR%20Hill%20Challenge%20(draft).doc&ei=8beTUJ63EsnO0QXZ34CQCA&usg=AFQjCNGqxeTQpompRDnywhG598oMLEtrPA&cad=rja

The truth is out there.. just a case of needing a very large spade to dig through the ****
Thanks Dave! :)

If anyone can find any photos of me prior to 3rd of May 1955 maybe we could prove I am a copy too! Although I cant imagine who would want to do that!!! :D

All the best

David
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Really enjoyed reading this thread. I don't think any of the Kudos bikes are clones of any other,I just picked bikes I liked and spec'd them to what I thought would be attractive to my customers. The Safari bike was a unique frame shape to fulfill a particular purpose,if anyone wishes to copy it so be it.
Morphix,I am afraid sueing a chinese manufacturer is a non starter,can you imagine trying to prove your design rights in a court in Shanghai and even if you won you would never get settlement,the chinese would just set up a new company.
Its interesting that most of the worlds patent battles are in China but not from an external company.its the chinese fighting legal battles between themselves.
Actually I was walking round the Shanghai show this year,looking at a bike with a frame shape that I thought looked good and a guy named Andrew,big powerful eastern european looking guy,quite good looking in the right light,leaned over my shoulder and said copy that and David will go mad!
I think most of these MTB style bikes are pretty much the same,detail and spec differences,the customer probably makes his choice based upon many other factors,just copying a particular frame shape does not guarantee sales.
David(Miall),just out of interest now you have moved production to Germany will you be putting a German,EEC or Chinese flag on your bikes,its going to be a difficult choice?
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Hi Dave, thanks for asking, we will continue to use the Union Flag to signify we are a British company, The bikes will now (as per EN15194) have Made In Germany on the frame rather than Made in China.

All the best,

David
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Hi Dave, thanks for asking, we will continue to use the Union Flag to signify we are a British company, The bikes will now (as per EN15194) have Made In Germany on the frame rather than Made in China.

All the best,


David
David,apologies I didn't give you the option of a union jack flag did I,that was remiss of me,I didn't think that would any longer seem appropriate.
Will you be flying the Union Jack for good ol blighty on the bikes sold in Germany,the Germans are very nationalistic probably not good for sales!
Should Kudos be putting union jacks on our bikes? To be honest I don't think I would feel comfortable doing that.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
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Hmmm...what an interesting, informative, thought provoking thread this is, Im really enjoying it ..........miaow lol ;)

Lynda :)
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
Some manufacturers claim that their products are Japanese when in reality they are Made in China:confused:
 

funkylyn

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Feb 22, 2011
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Some manufacturers claim that their products are Japanese when in reality they are Made in China:confused:
Yes....Ive heard whisper of a motor like that.......:rolleyes:

Lynda :)
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
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To be quite serious, I dont know what others think, but I really do believe that a Union Jack should only be put on a product that is produced in the UK......or is it different in the bike world ?

If I was buying any type of product and saw the union jack I would presume that it was made in the UK.

Or is this general practice with other products to put the UJ on them if only the company itself is based in the UK ?

Maybe it would be OK if the product was assembled in the UK, because I would imagine that its difficult to find anything that has all its parts made in the country.

I just always thought that the Union Jack signified the 'country of origin' :confused:

Lynda :)
 

jazper53

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Jan 20, 2012
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I agree with funkylyn the U.J. should be reserved for British Companies promoting British made products only, anything else could be regarded as misleading, IMHO.
 
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fishingpaul

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Sep 24, 2007
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I guess the union jack could be placed on something made up of chinese parts,but assembled in the uk,i have noticed made under licence on other products,when produced in another country.
 

jazper53

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I wonder what flag Dyson should wear, as its products are currently manufactured in the Far East ?


images.jpg
 
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Old_Dave

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Sep 15, 2012
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Don't forget that maybe the union flag will have to be re designed soon... That's if Mr salmon's cunning plan to let the 16 year olds vote on independence gives the result he wants.

I recon that people should have to pass an exam to win the right to vote, and I also recon that an exam should be taken before becoming a parent, but That's another story


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