Spot the difference...

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,370
16,871
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Intellectual property is very well protected in this country, by possibly the best laws in the world. My son did try to train as a patent attorney!

I quote from wikipedia:
Directive on the legal protection of designs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A design is defined as "the appearance of the whole or a part of a product resulting from the features of, in particular, the lines, contours, colours, shape, texture and/or materials of the product itself and/or its ornamentation" (Art. 2). Designs may be protected if:

they are novel, that is if no identical design has been made available to the public;
they have individual character, that is the "informed user" would find it different from other designs which are available to the public.
Where a design forms part of a more complex product, the novelty and individual character of the design are judged on the part of the design which is visible during normal use.

Designs are not protected insofar as their appearance is wholly determined by their technical function, or by the need to interconnect with other products to perform a technical function (the "must-fit" exception).

Under UK national law, there are two types of protection available for designs - "Unregistered" Design Right and Registered Designs. Under European law there are two equivalent forms of protection, but this note is mainly concerned with the national UK rights.


From http://www.dehns.com/cms/document/protecting_designs.pdf

Automatic "Unregistered" Design Right
UK law provides a limited degree of automatic protection against the copying of product designs. Generally speaking, there is a five year period during which the owner of a design can prevent others from copying that design without his consent. There is a further five year period during which the owner can demand a royalty for use of the design.
Design Right protects the shape or configuration of the whole or part of an article. It does not protect surface decoration. It also does not protect features of an article which have to match or fit another article. To benefit from Design Right a design has to be original, that is, not commonplace in the design field in question at the time of its creation.
Design Right is very limited. It can only be enforced if it can be shown that the alleged infringer copied the design - a similar design created independently does not infringe. Also, the five year period is much shorter than the design life of many successful products. Design Right is not automatically available to all designers worldwide, and is generally only available for designs made by EU citizens.
Registered Designs
By obtaining a Registered Design, the above problems may be overcome. A Registered Design is a monopoly right granted by the government (the Designs Registry is part of the UK Intellectual Property Office). Assuming the Registration is valid, exclusive use of the design in the UK is provided for up to 25 years - a similar design used by a competitor may infringe regardless of whether it is a copy. If protection is required overseas, then corresponding registrations may be obtained based on the UK application.

This thread was started as a somewhat simplistic comparison between two products, both sourced from China.

They are not designed for the same market and are not even made with the same components.

To 'spot the difference', youwould need to place the two bikes side by side, and that is just the starting point.

So where did Morphix get the facts wrong?

1. passing off. This is a trademark infringement, not applicable here

2, patent infringements: our respective Chinese manufacturers own them. They don't fight over this.

3. design infringements: our respective Chinese manufacturers own them. They don't fight over this.

David @ Wisper is incorrect in his assertion that Woosh copied his design.

I have PM'ed David asking him what he believed that our Chinese manufacturers have stolen from him. It's a simple enough question and he has not been able to provide an answer.

Hatti
 
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carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
everybody has copied this.......
In 1817 Baron von Drais invented a walking machine that would help him get around the royal gardens faster: two same-size in-line wheels, the front one steerable, mounted in a frame which you straddled...

being my great uncle 33 times removed you all owe me a lot of money ! :D
 

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
I was wondering if we got rid of copyright law would'nt the world be a better and cheaper place to live
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,282
2,252
69
Sevenoaks Kent
Oh dear....... Hatti you don't need to be a genius, simply LOOK at the bikes! :rolleyes: If you really don't understand why Andy asked the question there is no hope.

Most people on the forum know what you guys are doing and why you are doing it.

I do understand that it's expensive and not easy producing something new, you need to spend some money and do a bit of thinking. Simply buying a look alike off the shelf, is in my opinion copping out. Why not make the right kind of name for you and your business by designing something unique or at least take some effort finding something unique and building your own brand?

Some may think that simply buying a cheap bike that is aesthetically similar to a successful established brand is quite lazy and does nothing to expand the electric bike market? What do you think Hatti?

Finally, so we can put this to bed and concentrate on making the British public more aware of the electric bike. I have absolutely no intention on wasting time and money suing you guys so you don't need to worry. I just wish you would not pretend that this was an accident?

Best regards

David
 

Blew it

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2008
1,472
97
Swindon, Wiltshire
.... Why not make the right kind of name for you and your business by designing something unique or at least take some effort finding something unique and building your own brand?
Eh! You didn't design the Wisper 905, it was an improved version of the 2005 'Knight-rider' already being manufactured by the factory you bought into. :confused:
 

RoadieRoger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2010
726
200
David I`m a Member of this Forum and I don`t know what Hatti is doing and why she is doing it apart from running a business selling Ebikes . Have I missed something ?
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
specsavers?
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,282
2,252
69
Sevenoaks Kent
Eh! You didn't design the Wisper 905, it was an improved version of the 2005 'Knight-rider' already being manufactured by the factory you bought into. :confused:
I had nothing to do with the old Knight Rider Blew it, we designed the frame in 2004, I have never bought into a factory in China.

I was in the our draftsman's office for three days developing the 905e frame as it was called then, it was complicated and hard work and in all took a couple of years to perfect. The Knight Rider I believe was Mark Rao's tribute to our design! :)

All the best

David
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,282
2,252
69
Sevenoaks Kent
David I`m a Member of this Forum and I don`t know what Hatti is doing and why she is doing it apart from running a business selling Ebikes . Have I missed something ?
Hi Roger, I was careful to say "most" maybe I should have said many?

All the best

David
 

Scimitar

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 31, 2010
1,772
40
Ireland
everybody has copied this.......
In 1817 Baron von Drais invented a walking machine that would help him get around the royal gardens faster: two same-size in-line wheels, the front one steerable, mounted in a frame which you straddled...

being my great uncle 33 times removed you all owe me a lot of money ! :D
I hope you all realise that, as a thirty-second cousin (four times removed) of the nearest descendant of Dunlop the Tyreman, you all owe ME a fortune.
In fact, my Great-Uncle Derailleur would have something to say on the matter.
Expect to hear from my solicitors in the morning.
Good day to you.
 
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carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
I hope you all realise that, as a thirty-second cousin (four times removed) of the nearest descendant of Dunlop the Tyreman, you all owe ME a fortune.
In fact, my Great-Uncle Derailleur would have something to say on the matter.
Expect to hear from my solicitors in the morning.
Good day to you.
yeah but without the seat,frame,handlebars and wheels those rubber bits don't really matter, the rest is essential,my uncle had wooden wheels wich never puuctured
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,370
16,871
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
David

I am puzzled. You are suggesting to me that we go design our own bikes - but this costs megabucks.
I give you an example to illustrate the kind of commitment and volume you'd need if you wanted to become an e bike manufacturer.
The Woosh Zephyr is made by the same company that makes the Sirocco 2. We suggested to the rep some improvements last May and luckily, they agreed to modify the moulds. Their cost: $50,000, our cost: $15 more per bike. The new Zephyr will be with us in December.
To design and engineer a unique bike - must be in the region of £100,000 - £200,000.
A quick look at your balance sheets for the last few years doesn't show any signs of this. Am I missing something here?
 

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
Clearly a major price difference, but is there anyone out there who has bought a Sirocco 2, as I would be interested in a hands on independent review, don't really care that it looks like a 905se only its performance or lack of it. anyone?
 
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Old_Dave

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 15, 2012
1,211
2
Dumfries & Galloway
Hi jasper53

For the last two days I have been reviewing the Woosh Sant Ana which has a very similar specification..

The major differences are that the Sirocco 2 has a 15AH battery and of course is not a step through frame design...

With out spoiling my review, I can say that that the Woosh makes an excellent choice and offers great value for money.
 

Hackney Andy

Pedelecer
May 11, 2011
74
0
Is it just the frame that Wisper claim is their unique design (into which they've apparently invested so heavily) and its replicated geometry their main issue? And are all other components (motor, battery, transmission, controller, throttle, forks, brakes, handlebars etc) 'off the shelf' items that could be purchased legitimately by anyone?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
To be honest, I don't know what this is all about. The Woosh bike is black and has a battery behind the seatpost. I don't seehow that makes it a Wisper copy. If you look, the frame's actually a totally different shape and I bet there's not a single part on it that matches a Wisper.

Wisper is a brand and their bikes have a characteristic shaped frame. The rest of the parts are more or less off-the shelf items, but what makes the bike good is how these items are chosen and how they work together in harmony to make the bike a joy to ride, and how Wisper works with the suppliers to iron out faults, where every other brand that uses these parts also benefit. Maybe some parts are developed and adjusted specifically to Wisper's demand, but very few.

The Woosh bike is also now a brand, and they've chosen their parts to make their package, and they've also started down the road of improvement and development, but they're several years behind Wisper, and they'll benefit from improvements that other brands have instigated with the suppliers, as will others that follow benefit from the improvements that Woosh demand from the suppliers.

Just because the two bikes look, at a glance, similar doesn't make the Woosh a copy. It's absolutely completely different - if you take the time to study it
 

fishingpaul

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 24, 2007
874
86
Just what is the problem here.everybody knows if you pay a lot more for a bike,you expect better quality components and you should expect better after market support from an established seller,but all this about people trying to copy a wisper is complete crap,it is not like people with similar looking frames try and sell them as a similar name or anything,i think wisper do not like the fact that they are around half the price,and even use the same type of bafang motor,they become all defensive and try and run down the competition,if you look at any premium mountain bike be it scott,giant,marin,cannondale etc you could find a very close looking bike for a third of the price.but it would be much heavier and harder to ride,and also fitted with very cheap components. a good value premium bike will always sell if it is far better specced and easier to ride than a cheap one.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
I see some on here not bothered by the look a likes......Wonder if they would feel the same if it was their money invested in the established brand...I very much doubt it!
 

Hackney Andy

Pedelecer
May 11, 2011
74
0
I see some on here not bothered by the look a likes......Wonder if they would feel the same if it was their money invested in the established brand...I very much doubt it!
I wouldn't invest in a brand of machine that largely consists of an assembly of off-the-shelf components.

I think all acknowledge that the Wisper has higher grade components and better post sales service, but is that enough to bridge the £820 chasm?
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
This thread is like listening to a group of serial killers arguing about which van is the most practical.