Should we be suprised by the Brexit victory?

[Yamdude]

It would seem that brexit is the only news on offer at the moment...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-child-poverty-un-austerity

Indeed.... its utterly despicable the way this government has heaped the burden of austerity on to the least well off.
Its no wonder given the chance to stick to the establishment, these voters were going to jump at it. Like this guy, of which there are many like him....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/martin-nothing-lose-vote-leave-unemployed-benefits-sanctioned

 

[Gubbins]

I am constantly amused by the way in supporters use words like indecisive to describe the result while the out's describe it as very decisive.
I am just reading Mr Osborne saying the city will thrive and remain the hub of world finances.
Really, just what are we supposed to believe?

 

[oldgroaner]

It would seem that brexit is the only news on offer at the moment...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/stories-buried-brexit-child-poverty-un-austerity

Shush! you're not supposed to Notice that are you?

 

[oldgroaner]

I am constantly amused by the way in supporters use words like indecisive to describe the result while the out's describe it as very decisive.
I am just reading Mr Osborne saying the city will thrive and remain the hub of world finances.
Really, just what are we supposed to believe?

Well heres an inescapable fact for you
The Nations future has been decided by just under 4% of the people who voted in the referendum.
And the possibility they did that with a full understanding of what they had done or even why is remote.

 

[Gubbins]

Well heres an inescapable fact for you
The Nations future has been decided by just under 4% of the people who voted in the referendum.
And the possibility they did that with a full understanding of what they had done or even why is remote.

Is that statistic like the one where 70% of the under 25's voted to stay? When in fact it's actually 70% of the 30% that were bothered to get out of bed? I am not an intellectual so I can only use my life's experience to decide what's right and to constantly hear those like me being called stupid doesn't help. I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

 

[oldgroaner]

Is that statistic like the one where 70% of the under 25's voted to stay? When in fact it's actually 70% of the 30% that were bothered to get out of bed? I am not an intellectual so I can only use my life's experience to decide what's right and to constantly hear those like me being called stupid doesn't help. I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

No, is it a case that you would prefer not to believe it?

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[Gubbins]

No, is it a case that you would prefer not to believe it?

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Not to beleive what exactly? that some are trying to convince us that we want to change our minds!
Please be aware that clever phrasing and politispeak is a bit lost on me.. If you want to make a point please make it it plain..

 

[oldgroaner]

I have already said I expected the result and forecast it, when others doubted remember?
Because people have been deliberately misled into thinking the government didn't agree to all the legislation coming out of the EU, when in fact they did and only in 2% of the case argued against something and lost.
Everything else they agreed to. Hardly a case of being domineered by the EU was it?
Your voting decision wasn't so much stupid as inevitable considering the info you had, but then again, you didn't check whether it was true, did you?

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[Gubbins]

I have already said I expected the result and forecast it, when others doubted remember?
Because people have been deliberately misled into thinking the government didn't agree to all the legislation coming out of the EU, when in fact they did and only in 2% of the case argued against something and lost.
Everything else they agreed to. Hardly a case of being domineered by the EU was it?
Your voting decision wasn't so much stupid as inevitable considering the info you had, but then again, you didn't check whether it was true, did you?

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To be fair, the rules from the eu thing wasn't what decided me personally.. For me it was the uncontrolled immigration and the way the remains tried constantly to make it racist to have this view, which was then compounded by Cameron's warning that pensioners could loose £35000 a year after Brexit, and as my pension is only £5000 per year it showed me just how out of touch the rich really are..
As for checking the so called facts offered by both sides.. I wouldn't know where to start!
again about facts.. less than 25% of the under 25's actually voted to remain.. I dont know if that's true or not, I suppose its a bit like the net or gross figure we pay in the the pot.. The remain people just dont seem to be able to accept that they lost..
I wonder if loosing is a new thing for some!

 

[flecc]

I also wonder who is pushing the idea that most of the leavers want to change their mind... is it a case of say it enough and it will be true??

Nobody is pushing the idea, it just results from the fact that so many being interviewed who voted to leave are expressing second thoughts now it's actually happened. There's no doubt that many who were really exercising a protest vote against our governemnt are now alarmed at the outcome, many of them saying they would change their vote if they could. All this and more has been seen and heard repeatedly in live interviews from all media sources.
.

 

[flecc]

The remain people just dont seem to be able to accept that they lost.

No, what we don't and won't accept is a full departure from the EU with the immense damage that will do. And the reason we won't accept that is the tiny margin making that decision and the fact that so much of the leave vote was nothing more that the usual mid term protest vote against the government in power.

The least we expect now is a compromise solution like the Norway deal to most accurately reflect the nation's indecision. That will be worse than what we've got now, but that's the price of the foolishness of leaving.
.

 

[Gubbins]

Don't you think that will change now events are unfolding with things no where near as bad as was threatened! Even osborn is saying London will thrive and still remain the hub of world banking.

 

[Gubbins]

No, what we don't and won't accept is a full departure from the EU with the immense damage that will do. And the reason we won't accept that is the tiny margin making that decision and the fact that so much of the leave vote was nothing more that the usual mid term protest vote against the government in power.

The least we expect now is a compromise solution like the Norway deal to most accurately reflect the nation's indecision. That will be worse than what we've got now, but that's the price of the foolishness of leaving.
.

So why are the remain politicians saying the vote was so decisive it can't be ignored

 

[flecc]

Don't you think that will change now events are unfolding with things no where near as bad as was threatened! Even osborn is saying London will thrive and still remain the hub of world banking.

Not really. Certainly some of the threats were stupid, but that was just the usual electioneering, both sides being equally guilty of that.

London always thrives in relative terms, it's the rest of the country that tends to suffer most and need propping up with London earnings. But what has happened now is especially dangerous since 80% of our export earnings are in services and most of those in the EU. No-one outside of Norway has managed to get services access to the EU market, so if we lose that we really will be in trouble.

And it's the more extreme leavers who seem willing to risk that without a shred of evidence of any alternative source of viable business. They smugly assume that the EU needs to please us to keep their business with us, but that is ill-founded. The EU leaders have been sick of Britain and it's attitudes for a long time now as David Cameron found when he tried to get a renegotiation deal. We are going to find negotiations very tough indeed and there won't be anyone willing to do us favours.
.

 

[flecc]

So why are the remain politicians saying the vote was so decisive it can't be ignored

The operative word there is "politician", of course they will say that to placate the leavers and get the upper hand. Just wait for the reality of the outcome.
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[Gubbins]

The operative word there is "politician", of course they will say that to placate the leavers and get the upper hand. Just wait for the reality of the outcome.
.

I suspected all, along that it wont actually happen and at the end of the day it wont make much difference to me either way and I have always been amused, and I really mean amused, by the way positions conduct themselves. One case I remember was when Mrs Thatcher was being interviewed by a group of 10 year olds and one asked if there was a nuclear war did she have a bunker she could go to ..
her convoluted reply, to a small child was.. well certainly not to the point.
Interesting days ahead I think..

 

[oldgroaner]

To be fair, the rules from the eu thing wasn't what decided me personally.. For me it was the uncontrolled immigration and the way the remains tried constantly to make it racist to have this view, which was then compounded by Cameron's warning that pensioners could loose £35000 a year after Brexit, and as my pension is only £5000 per year it showed me just how out of touch the rich really are..
As for checking the so called facts offered by both sides.. I wouldn't know where to start!
again about facts.. less than 25% of the under 25's actually voted to remain.. I dont know if that's true or not, I suppose its a bit like the net or gross figure we pay in the the pot.. The remain people just dont seem to be able to accept that they lost..
I wonder if loosing is a new thing for some!

And now immigration remains the same as before, with the Government admitting it can increase if they want it to, so what have gained?
You should have known better than to listen to anything the Tory Government says,and yet took it as a matter of faith that their non stop sniping at the EU for the last 30 years was all true? Really?

 

[Gubbins]

And now immigration remains the same as before, with the Government admitting it can increase if they want it to, so what have gained?
You should have known better than to listen to anything the Tory Government says,and yet took it as a matter of faith that their non stop sniping at the EU for the last 30 years was all true? Really?

Sorry but I just don't understand... we haven't left yet and as far as I know nothing has changed. Still open borders and as far as I can see its the rather upset remainers that keep saying that nothing has changed when clearly nothing has.. stating the obvious . So surely it will depend on how, if or when the new pm gets things started.

 

[oldgroaner]

Sorry but I just don't understand... we haven't left yet and as far as I know nothing has changed. Still open borders and as far as I can see its the rather upset remainers that keep saying that nothing has changed when clearly nothing has.. stating the obvious . So surely it will depend on how, if or when the new pm gets things started.

You really, really must start listening to what the politicians are saying to you as that has changed radically, but you're not listening hasn't has it? so you are not aware of the changing situation.
And when you listen, try to understand what they actually mean.
For example the Goverment has stated
Immigration will not stop, and it will increase if they think it's desirable, is that clear enough?
We cannot control our borders without increasing the 3 coastal patrol boats to over 300
Despite the like of Brendan thinking they will only cross the channel by the shortest route as they are coming in through Hull and though some have been caught who knows how many got through?
And by replacing the charity volunteers currently managing coastwatch after Government reduced the numbers of coastguards, so checking the shipping is not very good due to that.
You are not going to see any headway made on reducing immigration as cost rules that out, and if the French decide to stop holding the migrants at Calais we will have thousands more at Dover.
I

 

[Gubbins]

You really, really must start listening to what the politicians are saying to you as that has changed radically, but you're not listening hasn't has it? so you are not aware of the changing situation.
And when you listen, try to understand what they actually mean.
For example
Immigration will not stop, and it will increase if they think it's desirable, is that clear enough?

Exactly as you say.. if it's deemed desirable... you make the mistake of assuming we all want to stop imigration and send the foreigners home...
The idea as I see it is to stop the eu jobless coming here and claiming benefits... and before you say it.. it may not happen where you are but it does here..