S-KU95 controller help

[harrys]

[QUOTE="Matthew Hutchinson, post: 440658, member: 22491]
Edit just realised that of course it would have turned it on, the whole point in shorting the red and blue is to bypass the switch[/QUOTE]

Yes, I pulled out my unused elifebike controller. It uses the 810led. Jumpered the correct two wires and saw that the throttle was able to spin the motor without the 810 connected, so that that suggests you have indeed proved your controller is likely dead,

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

[QUOTE="Matthew Hutchinson, post: 440658, member: 22491]
Edit just realised that of course it would have turned it on, the whole point in shorting the red and blue is to bypass the switch

Yes, I pulled out my unused elifebike controller. It uses the 810led. Jumpered the correct two wires and saw that the throttle was able to spin the motor without the 810 connected, so that that suggests you have indeed proved your controller is likely dead,[/QUOTE]


Thanks for trying that, the only thing worse than having to buy a new controller is buying one and finding I didn't need to buy it lol.

*To add insult to injury I've just checked my funds and it looks like I will have to wait till payday to order my box , apparently the wife believes food is more important than me getting my new toy going*

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Matthew, do you have a voltmeter? Before writing off the controller, check the red and black wires that you cut to see if there's 5V power for the Hall Sensors.

That means you have to be able to start the controller, and that requires connecting up the 810LED display. You will have to press the ON/OFF button on the 810LED to turn on the system. Maybe you forgot to do that. I sure did, on my first ebike kit which uses an 810LED.

After I connected the battery and flipped the switch on the battery, nothing happened. Then it occurred to me to press the power button, The bike came alive and has has not failed me yet in almost 1000 miles now.

The 810LED does not need 5v power. It runs off the battery. They also will work independent of the controller. All they need is battery and ground. I've powered them up on battery only, without controller.

The 5 volt supplies in these controllers can be surpisingly robust when short circuited. They don't need to supply much current so I think a current limiting resistor may be in place.

Good luck.

Out of interest I've had a mess around with this controller. I was worried about causing damage to my battery so I've used an old phone charger to power the controller, so I measured 17.7v in, the throttle was showing 3.6v, hall sensor 3.6v and led 17.7v the led was shorted red to green and I also shorted the throttle red to green. I then tested the three motor wires but there was no reading on any of them. Im obviously just trying to learn here but I assumed because the throttle was shorted the controller would read this as full throttle and there should be power in either the blue, yellow or green motor wires if this controller was working or am I getting this wrong.
Edit: I'm pretty sure i haven't been reading volts as I've just noticed I'm reading 17.7v from a 6v transformer lol

 

[harrys]

If that is the latest picture, you can't expect the controller to work if you haven't repaired the Hall sensor wires. I don't think you have proved anything yet.

I see you have a very common multimeter. I always used to chuckle because it has a built-in beta tester for transistors. I may be one of the few who ever used one of these to check a transistor.

I tried, but I've never seen a controller start a motor by shorting the throttle sense wire to the throttle power, unless it was a brief jerk when brushing the two wires together. The throttle input has to be below the throttle voltage.

You won't be able to test the controller by looking for a DC voltage on the three motor phase wires either.

You have to hook up everything. Motor and its eight wires. Throttle. Battery. I don't think you will hurt battery by connecting it to test.

At least you can measure the battery. Put the dial to 200V and carefully probe the battery leads. Should be aound 40-42V if a 36V battery or 52-53V if a 48V battery,

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

If that is the latest picture, you can't expect the controller to work if you haven't repaired the Hall sensor wires. I don't think you have proved anything yet.

I see you have a very common multimeter. I always used to chuckle because it has a built-in beta tester for transistors. I may be one of the few who ever used one of these to check a transistor.

I tried, but I've never seen a controller start a motor by shorting the throttle sense wire to the throttle power, unless it was a brief jerk when brushing the two wires together. The throttle input has to be below the throttle voltage.

You won't be able to test the controller by looking for a DC voltage on the three motor phase wires either.

You have to hook up everything. Motor and its eight wires. Throttle. Battery. I don't think you will hurt battery by connecting it to test.

At least you can measure the battery. Put the dial to 200V and carefully probe the battery leads. Should be aound 40-42V if a 36V battery or 52-53V if a 48V battery,

Bloody multimeter died as well lol, I've got a new and slightly better one now, read the battery and it's a 48v and is reading 53v so all is good there thank God.
When this kit arrived it came without a connector on the motor sensor on the lead from motor to controller and someone else said there was no need to have it connected with this kit altho it would run quieter with it hooked up.
I'm not expecting this controller to work, I will get paid next week so will order another then, I will probably get a different throttle to see which I like best and the led/starter, is there anything else I might need or anything that will improve my setup without much outlay.
Also the brakes that came with this are pretty poor if I was to use brakes without the cut off switch would I need to short the brake connector on the controller or does it just automatically switch on when nothing is connected.
Is there a decent resource where I can learn more about bike electrics?
Sorry if this is a barrage of questions.

 

[Nealh]

The Q128 should run ok without halls connected.
In your case you will have caused damage to the controller PCB by shorting all five halls together in error, motor halls themselves will be unaffected as they were never connected up.
Whether it is a damaged PCB board/resistors or mosfets we don't know though you can check for Mos damage by following this easy tutorial link below, no battery power is needed as all you are doing is checking resistance/continuity.
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/BlownMosfets.pdf

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

The Q128 should run ok without halls connected.
In your case you will have caused damage to the controller PCB by shorting all five halls together in error, motor halls themselves will be unaffected as they were never connected up.
Whether it is a damaged PCB board/resistors or mosfets we don't know though you can check for Mos damage by following this easy tutorial link below, no battery power is needed as all you are doing is checking resistance/continuity.
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/BlownMosfets.pdf

Just done a continuity test, the reading initially jumps to around 1800 for one to two seconds and then just shows a 1 , it does that on all 3 phase on positive and negative, I've added a picture ado you can check I'm on the right settings

 

[Nealh]

When your new controller turns up show us a pic of the hall wires as they should come with a white connector, part no for connector is DJ7061A 2.8.21 and should simply mate with the one on the hub motor.
Show us a pic of the hub motor connector.

If you need one for the controller later PM me as I can send you a pair with for cost and p&p.

LH is controller side, RH is hub side.

 

[Nealh]

Just done a continuity test, the reading initially jumps to around 1800 for one to two seconds and then just shows a 1 , it does that on all 3 phase on positive and negative, I've added a picture ado you can check I'm on the right settings

You should get higher readings on GND test to the
3 phase wires typically 9 - 10ohm or so, set the dial to 20k/ohm.

On my new controller KT I get 9.85ohm on GND to each phase @ 20k/ohm.
On continuity, 5v to phase first phase goes to 1800 then 1 and both others read one.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

You should get higher readings on GND test to the
3 phase wires typically 9.2 ohm or so, set the dial to 20k/ohm.

On my new controller KT I get 9.15ohm on GND to each phase @ 20k/ohm.
On continuity, 5v to phase first phase goes to 1800 then 1 and both others read one.

@ 20k/ohm I get green 8.4 , yellow 8.3, blue 8.4 to ground
Green 9.1, yellow 10.5 , blue 12.5 to positive

Continuity is virtually the same as yours, although I don't get a beep, if I test a bit of wire or just touch the probes together there is a beep, I'm assuming this shows continuity , does the lack of beep mean there isnt continuity?

Just watched a few vids and read my instructions and it says if there is no beep or you get a 1 in the left of the screen there is no continuity, I have both these happen so I assume that proves the mosfet are broken

 

[Nealh]

No beep.
Your mosfets look fine for GND test.

Issue must be elsewhere on the board.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

You should get higher readings on GND test to the
3 phase wires typically 9 - 10ohm or so, set the dial to 20k/ohm.

On my new controller KT I get 9.85ohm on GND to each phase @ 20k/ohm.
On continuity, 5v to phase first phase goes to 1800 then 1 and both others read one.

Just to check when you say 5v to phase are you meaning the 5v motor sensor positive, if so I've just tested using that and there was no reading just the 1 on left , the previous reading were taken using the main power in

 

[Nealh]

Just to check when you say 5v to phase are you meaning the 5v motor sensor positive, if so I've just tested using that and there was no reading just the 1 on left , the previous reading were taken using the main power in

Ignore the 5v in that post I wrote as it was a TYPO and hadn't noticed it. It should have said red and yes from the main power in.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

No beep.
Your mosfets look fine for GND test.

Issue must be elsewhere on the board.

I'm a little confused, the vids I've watched tell me that when doing a continuity test there is an audible beep to show continuity, if I touch the probes together I get a beep because I obviously have continuity, yet on the pdf for the mosfets it says a beep would signify a short . When I do the test I get no beep on any, positive or negative, just an ascending numbers which then disappear leaving a 1 in the left of the display. If I test for continuity from positive in to positive on the led connector for instance I get a beep and a descending number eventually reaching zero on the right of the display.
So by my thinking those results show I have no continuity on any of my mosfets.

 

[Nealh]

The test isn't for a one piece wire but a gated/switch component.
The test for V/+ to phase only beeps when a blown Mosfet is detected and reads 0.
Not all meters have a beep option so 0 = beep in this case and test.

Read up on Mosfets, they are voltage switch component that open and close dependant on a source applied, so do not have a constant fixed connection/thru channel like a wire has.

It needs an electronics expert to explain better, someone like d8veh or Danidl though the answer may be long and uninteresting.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

The test isn't for a one piece wire but a gated/switch component.
The test for V/+ to phase only beeps when a blown Mosfet is detected and reads 0.
Not all meters have a beep option so 0 = beep in this case and test.

Read up on Mosfets, they are voltage switch component that open and close dependant on a source applied, so do not have a constant fixed connection/thru channel like a wire has.

It needs an electronics expert to explain better, someone like d8veh or Danidl though the answer may be long and uninteresting.

Bet you thought I had gone didn't you lol.
So I have my new controller and I've connected it up, I haven't connected the battery as I hoping you would have a quick glance at the images and confirm I've got everything correct, I'm pretty sure i have.
Firstly my sensor wires didn't come with connector fitted so I did that.

Im left with a spare white wire, there is no corresponding white on the controller side.
Then I connected everything else together.
now I've done it is hard to see where I went wrong last time, if I had the led on the first occasion it would have worked first time, because it didn't a combination of pain, medication and frustration saw me break it.
So if you can just let me know if everything looks fine it would be much appreciated, I won't connect power until you get back to me.

 

[Nealh]

The only difference this time is you have connected the hall wires directly to it's opposite mate and not shorting all six together. The white wire is a speed sense wire used when hub has internal speed sensing as well, put it in its correct slot /position to prevent any unwanted shorting.
With the led operational and no messing about shorting wires together you should be good to go.

Remove battery before connecting power wires and motor wires then fit battery and turn on led for correct operation.
AFAIK you are not using PAS.
However if you have a magnet disc/pas sensor and with the motor wheel off the ground, plug in the pas sensor and pass the disc by the sensor to check motor wheel is running correctly before you give it the throttle.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

The only difference this time is you have connected the hall wires directly to it's opposite mate and not shorting all six together. The white wire is a speed sense wire used when hub has internal speed sensing as well, put it in its correct slot /position to prevent any unwanted shorting.
With the led operational and no messing about shorting wires together you should be good to go.

Remove battery before connecting power wires and motor wires then fit battery and turn on led for correct operation.
AFAIK you are not using PAS.
However if you have a magnet disc/pas sensor and with the motor wheel off the ground, plug in the pas sensor and pass the disc by the sensor to check motor wheel is running correctly before you give it the throttle.

Connected it all, I've got power to my led but no movement, double checked all my connections and everything looks good. I'm at a loss.
Just noticed that both controllers came with a short connector as in the image below, does this need to be used anywhere, don't worry I'm not going to go try it and breaking things again/more.
Edit just looked on my old controller and it does not fit anywhere.
I'm beginning to wonder if there is a problem with the wheel but I can't see how I could have done that, nothing was connected to the wheel and I now question whether I ever damaged my original controller as reading back on this thread all the messing up I did was before I had been told how to short the LED connector so the controller will not have been switched on.

 

[Nealh]

The wire short is only 2 pin so usually for eabs of cruise control.
Double check your hall connector and make sure all pins are inserted nicely and none are backing out, and are colour to colour.

 

[Nealh]

http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/HallSensorTestingFinal.pdf
In #10 you said I mistakenly connected 1234 together and powered up this would have caused controller damage but not motor damage as the motor halls weren't connected.