Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[flecc]

it has never been about saving money or the planet it is the other way round for control and more profit and tax.

Some truth in that.

Smoke Control Areas dictate how much smoke is allowed to be emitted from your chimney.

Not really a 21st century worry, it's over eighty years since I last lived in a building with a chimney.
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[soundwave]

i have a electric bong and windows

tho the council removed the bottom part of the chimney years ago to make the kitchen bigger and used a rsj the support the rest.

and this year they removed the top part so still have the bit in the middle and rsj supporting it

so see what they value it at next Friday and nick it with my 56% discount

 

[Woosh]

I didn't criticize it. Indeed it is already thought of as the best future solution for national distribution. But it's probably about 40 years away for the first motorway example in Britain.
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New batteries charge in 5-10 minutes even now. We are years behind Chinese companies.

 

[soundwave]

2017 to present
[edit]
In June 2017, Lockheed Martin announced that the SR-72 would be in development by the early 2020s

i can fly that

 

[flecc]

New batteries charge in 5-10 minutes even now. We are years behind Chinese companies.

But to tow a full trailer up to 300 miles with an E-tractor unit demands a very large weight in batteries, deducting from the payload.

A better future would surely be to greatly reduce all this grossly excessive worldwide excessive goods transport and personal travel and develop smaller scale local robotically aided production of as much of our needs as possible. Including all our foods, in artificial environments where necessary for the exotica.
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[Woosh]

Progress in batteries are just astonishing. European car manufacturers are still using NMC chemistry because of its high energy density. Chinese manufacturers use high density LFP at less than half the price and charge 5 times faster. Their LFP now reaching the same density as NMC. In 2025, they will bring out cars with semi solid state batteries, with even higher density than NMC and up to 10 times charging speed of NMC and a lot safer than NMC. They will sell cars with 100kwh-110kwh batteries while we still make cars with less than 70kwh batteries.

 

[matthewslack]

Progress in batteries are just astonishing. European car manufacturers are still using NMC chemistry because of its high energy density. Chinese manufacturers use high density LFP at less than half the price and charge 5 times faster. Their LFP now reaching the same density as NMC. In 2025, they will bring out cars with semi solid state batteries, with even higher density than NMC and up to 10 times charging speed of NMC and a lot safer than NMC. They will sell cars with 100kwh-110kwh batteries while we still make cars with less than 70kwh batteries.

Is their LFP available on the open market in any way accessible to us?

And do you have any 'read all about it' sources to get us up to date?

I feel I am behind the times!

 

[Woosh]

Is their LFP available on the open market in any way accessible to us?

And do you have any 'read all about it' sources to get us up to date?

I feel I am behind the times!

Currently available only in specialised formats for EVs and grids. In 10 years, lithium won't be needed, sodium batteries will become dominant. Recently, I have seen yt video about fast home based high power dc charging kit that can charge your electric car in minutes instead of hours. The system is reversible. If you have plenty of solar or wind, you may never need to pay for your electricity. Batteries that are guaranteed for the lifetime of cars will become normal.

 

[flecc]

sodium batteries will become dominant.

Ah, sodium, the technology that never really arrives.

Way back inthe 2000s we had a courier company starting to run three very large e-vans powered by sodium salt batteries for London deliveries. They soon disappeared from view without trace.

Also back then we had Ford partnered with the Think organisation to produce a small e-car with sodium salt batteries. They never got beyond trials to reach the market.

At the same time the Smart organisation had a e-version of their ForTwo car, using a sodium salt battery. They made one hundred for the Gas Board to use six days a week, best suited to the requirement for the batteries to be maintained at near 300 degrees all the time, so unsuitable for consumer intermittent use.

And a decade later one of our leading e-bike suppliers forecast that sodium was about to take over the e-bike battery market.

So you'll forgive me when I say I'll believe it when I see it.
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[Woosh]

You are right to be sceptical. There isn't yet any compelling reason why sodium should replace lithium but demand for grid storage is so huge that development work on sodium also gets huge interest.

 

[lenny]

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[lenny]

 

[flecc]

You are right to be sceptical. There isn't yet any compelling reason why sodium should replace lithium but demand for grid storage is so huge that development work on sodium also gets huge interest.

That certainly makes much more sense, a technology more suited to large scale static application.
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[Woosh]

That certainly makes much more sense, a technology more suited to large scale static application.
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Sodium ion batteries are good even for e-bikes. With max energy density of 250wh per kg at the moment, you can still make a profit selling a 500wh battery weighing less than 3kgs for £150 because it's inherently much safer.

 

[flecc]

Sodium ion batteries are good even for e-bikes. With max energy density of 250wh per kg at the moment, you can still make a profit selling a 500wh battery weighing less than 3kgs for £150 because it's inherently much safer.

Then why aren't we seeing them, instead of the likes of Bosch et al at three times that price and li-ion batteries at lower prices exploding into flames?

Once again, it isn't true until it's real.
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[Ghost1951]

Then why aren't we seeing them, instead of the likes of Bosch et al at three times that price and li-ion batteries at lower prices exploding into flames?

Once again, it isn't true until it's real.
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Sodium Ion UK Button Top Battery X4 1300mAh HD Battery, + postcase UK DELIVERY | eBay

Internal Resistance≤20mΩ. Battery Specification. Battery type Sodium-ion. Standard Charging Current0.5C. Cycle life>2000 cycles.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Woosh]

Then why aren't we seeing them, instead of the likes of Bosch et al at three times that price and li-ion batteries at lower prices exploding into flames?

Once again, it isn't true until it's real.
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I can get sodium ion batteries now but I am sure you have heard this argument before: sell something that I know that's proven and works or something new, heavier and for less profit?
I am pretty sure that in due course, sodium ion batteries will be widely adopted for domestic installations.

 

[flecc]

I am pretty sure that in due course, sodium ion batteries will be widely adopted for domestic installations.

I've agreed with that when I mentioned static applications, but they still have some way to go to compete in vehicles.

Considering sodium batteries were being tried in various e-vehicles over 20 years ago, that's exceptionally slow progress.
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[nigelbb]

I can see that eventually Li-ion batteries for vehicles will be banned. It's OK to take the risk with a few cells in power tools & the like but putting thousands of potential little bombs in a car is an unacceptable risk.

 

[Woosh]

I can see that eventually Li-ion batteries for vehicles will be banned. It's OK to take the risk with a few cells in power tools & the like but putting thousands of potential little bombs in a car is an unacceptable risk.

The fire risk in lithium ion batteries will be eliminated in about 3-4 years in semi solid state or solid state batteries. They put a temperature sensitive membrane between the two electrodes to stop short circuit.