Prices of the electricity we use to charge

AndyBike

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Plus as more and more go electric, the infrastructure for charging grows also as business invests in it.
 
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Ghost1951

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Plus as more and more go electric, the infrastructure for charging grows also as business invests in it.
But of course, our ridiculous planning system (Computer say No) prevents the installation of a grid with the capacity to deliver the charging stations and other needs required by greater electrification.

A little while ago, I was listening to the CEO of a company which had built charging stations along motorways and they could not be supplied with current at sufficient levels. Why not? Because the existing grid structure was woefully inadequate to supply the current required and upgrading would need new pylons. Planning obstruction meant they were told that it would be sometime in the next decade. It is the same story with some wind farms which have been built but can not operate at optimum levels because the grid between Scotland and England is not adequate to carry the load they would impose in sending power to where it is needed. These installations are paid to stop producing power at times. This is completely bonkers and I am glad this government has immediately cottoned on to the cause of so much delay in providing vital infrastructure, be it housing, power lines, wind farms and more besides. I have much more respect for Rayner having heard her scorn the idea that the welfare of newts must take precedence over the welfare of people who need housing. I didn't vote for them, but they are certainly right about the planning system. If a bat or a newt might be inconvenienced, you won't be allowed to build or develop on land.

Someone put a great essay up a while back which pointed out how much money is wasted in UK projects in complying with massive amounts of over regulation and planning nonsense. Building a nuclear station, or any large project costs several times more in this country than other comparable countries, because of gold plating of regulations and ridiculous planning rules.

If we had been allowed to extract gas from the Bowland Basin a few years back, we would not be paying the price we are right now for power generated as it must be, from time to time, from gas.

In the same time since that fracking nonsense debate was frothing here, America has gone from energy dependence on other countries to become the biggest gas exporter and a big oil exporter using the same technology. We have hundreds of years supply of gas under our feet and we are buying compressed gas (very energy inefficient) from the other side of the world.

If I was in charge, we would have nationalised it, and hired on a per cubic meter basis the gas industry to extract it, paying them a fee to be agreed per cubic meter. I would have banned sale abroad and we could use it cheaply as we need it to support our carbon free generation. Gas is low carbon anyway - loads better than coal - only the green extremists don't acknowledge that and however much wind and solar we build, we can't get by in winter without gas for when the winter high pressure systems arrive.
 
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Woosh

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But of course, our ridiculous planning system (Computer say No) prevents the installation of a grid with the capacity to deliver the charging stations and other needs required by greater electrification.
National Grid has set out a £58bn ($74bn) investment programme to revamp the UK’s electricity grid.
 
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flecc

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Plus as more and more go electric, the infrastructure for charging grows also as business invests in it.
Indeed. At the end of November 2024, there were 72,594 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 36,316 charging locations and 106,094 connectors.

But that's just the public ones. Some 85% of all e-car buyers have their own charger installed at home, so add another 1.1 million chargers to that total. Plus increasing numbers have charge points at their workplace as well.

Compare that 1.2 million total with the i.c. car position:

As of the end of 2023, there were 8,353 petrol stations in the United Kingdom. This is a significant decline from the mid-1960s, when there were around 40,000 petrol stations in the UK.
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Ghost1951

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National Grid has set out a £58bn ($74bn) investment programme to revamp the UK’s electricity grid.
Yes indeed and good on them. Of course it isn't up to them whether they will be allowed to actually build it. At the moment, that lies in the hands of pressure groups and individual complainers who will object to any of it being done. I have lost count of how many notices I have seen in fields raving about the evils of a small wind farm project or a pylon of two.

The government are saying the right things about changing the planning rules - projects of national significance will they say be decided by government and carried out. Good. We have had too much of NIMBYs getting their own way, and lawyers fighting for the rights of newts and bats and getting projects stopped

PS

How is the solar doing for you now? It is 16.42 and pitch dark here. Sun set at 15.43 and will rise at 0830 tomorrow. Weather forecast is heavy cloud and 71% probability of rain. On the bright side the wind is forecast at 42 - 47 mph gusts from 20.00 tonight until 1300 tomorrow, so wind power will be good.
 
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MikelBikel

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He actually shows Danish Coal, Oil, Biomass and Gas plants used for making Windmills (maybe some district heating, hehe). Oh, how green, how sustainable? Ha! :cool:
 

flecc

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He actually shows Danish Coal, Oil, Biomass and Gas plants used for making Windmills (maybe some district heating, hehe). Oh, how green, how sustainable? Ha! :cool:
But the other half of their energy policy are their waste to energy stations, they burn all their refuse to provide electricity.

And by the way, they are not windmills since they don't mill anything. They are wind driven generators, wind generators abbreviated.
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soundwave

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they blew up his ebike :D
 

lenny

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Clean, sustainable fuels made 'from thin air' and plastic waste

"The researchers, from the University of Cambridge, developed a solar-powered reactor that converts captured CO2 and plastic waste into sustainable fuels and other valuable chemical products. In tests, CO2 was converted into syngas, a key building block for sustainable liquid fuels, and plastic bottles were converted into glycolic acid, which is widely used in the cosmetics industry.

Unlike earlier tests of their solar fuels technology however, the team took CO2 from real-world sources -- such as industrial exhaust or the air itself. The researchers were able to capture and concentrate the CO2 and convert it into sustainable fuel."

 

nigelbb

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Sep 19, 2019
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Indeed. At the end of November 2024, there were 72,594 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 36,316 charging locations and 106,094 connectors.

But that's just the public ones. Some 85% of all e-car buyers have their own charger installed at home, so add another 1.1 million chargers to that total. Plus increasing numbers have charge points at their workplace as well.

Compare that 1.2 million total with the i.c. car position:

As of the end of 2023, there were 8,353 petrol stations in the United Kingdom. This is a significant decline from the mid-1960s, when there were around 40,000 petrol stations in the UK.
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ICE vehicles do not need to visit a petrol station to refuel. A jerry can allows mobile refuelling by the driver no matter how remote the location.
 
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matthewslack

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109.2% of demand met at that point, lots of wind being exported.
 
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MikelBikel

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The wind and solar are so Cheap they make the leccy cost more than diesel . And it Depends on What Brand of car one drives, etc, etc. So simple, so economical. Ha! :)
 

MikelBikel

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Jun 6, 2017
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Screenshot_20241217-114401_Chrome.jpg
So if its £70.10/MWh then per KWh it should be 1000 times less, 7000.1/1000= 7.01p per kWh, and we're paying how much? What a markup, gives Gouging a whole new meaning. Hell of a business "model", hehe :)
(or is it a misprint? Or I probably need retraining on a calculator, oops, look at the price in Germany, haha)
 
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Ghost1951

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Jun 2, 2024
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View attachment 61421
Meanwhile on the 'Other' end of the stick.. ;-)
To make sense of the question of whether Irish people are being ripped off or not, you would have to consider exactly how the Irish grid is being supplied. If you have more gas or coal generated power generation than the UK does, consumers would be more exposed to the world market price of those fuels. This could explain why you pay more per unit than UK customers. I note that the UK is not shown on your chart for some reason but the electricity price here is slightly less than what is shown for the EU27 average. I pay 28 Eur cents per kilowatt hour, BUT.... I also pay 70 pence a day standing charge so you would need to take that into account.

Standing charges are a total rip off for the small user and encourage power hogs to use what they like, subsidised by low consumption customers. Standing charge is my biggest cost component. I typically use about 3kwhr of electricity a day and about 35 kilowatt hours of gas.

This might help, but there is plenty online about the sources of energy supply on the Irish grid.

61422
 
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matthewslack

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Look at the 154gCO2/kWh in #7054 to see how far we have come in 20 years. Back then in a previous life, the actual figure was over 500g, and the figure used for forward planning was 430g.

Massive change, still more to do, but something is working!
 

Ghost1951

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Jun 2, 2024
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Look at the 154gCO2/kWh in #7054 to see how far we have come in 20 years. Back then in a previous life, the actual figure was over 500g, and the figure used for forward planning was 430g.

Massive change, still more to do, but something is working!
Yes Matthew - the change is often not acknowledged by the co2 hype brigade.

Right now the UK grid is producing power at 59g per Kwhr! Much wind....

61423
 
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Ghost1951

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I remember as a lad in 1966 going on school visits to various industrial sites as a real world eye opener. we went down a horrible coal mine 1400 feet under ground and crawled about at the coal face on our knees with our heads banging on the roof in a 3 foot coal seem. They had pit ponies in there, pulling tubs, but lots of lethal looking unguarded conveyor belts too. Health and safety would see the organisers of such a visit in court these days.

Then we went to a coal fired power station and peered into a window at the bottom of a giant boiler that was burning probably thousands of tonnes of coal a day. We stood by really hot turbines handling super heated steam. One of the operators told us that when they got a steam leak, they used to wave a mop around where they thought it was escaping because super heated steam is invisible at source but at about 500 centigrade. He said they knew where it was escaping because the mop went on fire.... Can't vouch for the truth of that, but it is what he said.

Both sites closed many years ago.

I will never forget the impression these visits made on me.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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ICE vehicles do not need to visit a petrol station to refuel. A jerry can allows mobile refuelling by the driver no matter how remote the location.
Nobody is pretending there are no e-car disadvantages, least of all me. There are pluses and minuses for each, I just ask everyone to look at the whole picture to comment fairly.

In this respect there is an emergency top up on route for e-cars, both the AA and the RAC carry top up equipment now to get an e-car to the nearest charging point.
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