Opinions Please.....?

[trex]

for a long time, I wondered why the Kalkhoff crank drive bikes are more satisfying to ride in comparison with Chinese bikes. I concluded that it is the way power is delivered and their speed limit is tappered rather than the mechanical bikes because my Specialized is as well equiped as the average Kalkhoff but my BBS01 does not have a torque sensor.
Don't think that you will always have to put in X% of effort to climb uphill. You only have to pedal medium to hard for the sensor to reach its maximum output and I am not strong. If you need more assistance, increase the assist level.

 

[JohnCade]

Well, Its not that i don't cycle, Usually by the time I reach office i am sweaty and super exhausted after cycling for 11Miles each way. . I don't want to feel that, and thats why I am leaning towards a electric bike instead of my 2 year old hybrid.

Not only I want to enjoy my ride but I also want to feel relaxed and enjoy my rest of the day after cycling 22 Miles too. I know, it can be personal opinion, but just because I am in such dilemma, do you think Woosh Sport TS can help in my situation even without having the throttle?

Edit: Another option to consider for the same price as Woosh Sport TS is GreenEdge CS2 http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/Green_Edge/Greenedge_CS2__Electric_Mountain_Bike.aspx
It comes with Branded Samsung battery, It also has thumb throttle, 3 pedal asssistance levels. Except it has 6 gears. But another Pros is it weights only 19Kg. thats 2-3 kg less than Woosh Sport TS.

Any opinion on GreenEdge CS2??

The point trex was making was that with a TS you can cycle with much less effort and sweat, but still go faster than an unpowered bike because of the bionic legs effect.

If however you put in the same effort and sweat as you do with your current bike you will go a lot faster particularly uphill than you do now and get just as tired as you do now.

You should try both types. TS bikes don’t need throttles. IMO neither do speed sensor ones as long as the power comes in on the first pedal push and there’s no lag. But that’s just my opinion and others like them.

 

[tapash]

The point trex was making was that with a TS you can cycle with much less effort and sweat, but still go faster than an unpowered bike because of the bionic legs effect.

If however you put in the same effort and sweat as you do with your current bike you will go a lot faster particularly uphill than you do now and get just as tired as you do now.

You should try both types. TS bikes don’t need throttles. IMO neither do speed sensor ones as long as the power comes in on the first pedal push and there’s no lag. But that’s just my opinion and others like them.

Thanks for clarifying this. I understand.

My point is if I want to buy a electric bike then not only I want to go faster but also with as less effort as possible (I agree I am lazy, but I don't want to feel piece of flesh after cycling to work and back home. First of all I am not doing it for fun or hobby. Sole reason for buying pedelecs is financial saving, avoid crappy traffic of London streets, and after stressful work I don't have to think of how am I gonna drag my body home, and carry the heavy bike on the stairs) . An e bike for a £1000 is not something I will be buying every few months. I know there is no perfect bike, but If I wanna buy something I wanna make sure that it's best bang for the bucks and as close to the best possible quality and meets my criteria.

I barely have access to the electric bike shop here in central London, thus joining this forum expecting some of you who already have some experience with all the different bikes would be able to help....

 

[Jimod]

Thanks for clarifying this. I understand.

My point is if I want to buy a electric bike then not only I want to go faster but also with as less effort as possible (I agree I am lazy, but I don't want to feel piece of flesh after cycling to work and back home...

In that case, you don't want a torque sensor. A bike with a simple pedal sensor would suit you much better. On both of my bikes, as long as you're turning the pedals, the motor will give you full power and take you along flattish roads with no effort from you. That is more like a throttle. A torque sensor is nothing like a throttle, it requires effort from you to power the motor.

On hill though, on either type of sensor, you need to put in effort. That all depends on how heavy you are and how steep the hills are.

 

[tapash]

In that case, you don't want a torque sensor. A bike with a simple pedal sensor would suit you much better. On both of my bikes, as long as you're turning the pedals, the motor will give you full power and take you along flattish roads with no effort from you. That is more like a throttle. A torque sensor is nothing like a throttle, it requires effort from you to power the motor.
On hill though, on either type of sensor, you need to put in effort. That all depends on how heavy you are and how steep the hills are.

Thanks Jimod, This clears my confusion a lot of which type of bike I need to get. Now need to decide which one to get??!!!

1. Oxygen MTB 11AH (£999, best bang for buck, but OOS, So removed)

Woosh Zepheyr-B (22Kg £920, 7 Gears, 6 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, 8Fun BPM Motor, 10AH Battery)

Burisch (20.5kg, £599, 7 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, 9AH Battery)

Greenedge CS2 (19kg, £599, 6 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, Samsung 9AH Battery, I like this one because of the weight)

Fast4ward Peak (21Kg, £999, 8 Gears, 3 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, Panasonic 9AH Battery) issues with torque sensor. Removed!!

 

[2Lazy]

Thanks Jimod, This clears my confusion a lot of which type of bike I need to get. Now need to find out which one to get??!!!

1. Oxygen MTB 11AH (£999, best bang for buck, but OOS, So removed)

Woosh Zepheyr-B (22Kg £920, 7 Gears, 6 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, 8Fun BPM Motor, 10AH Battery)

Burisch (20.5kg, £599, 7 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, 9AH Battery)

Greenedge CS2 (19kg, £599, 6 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, Samsung 9AH Battery, I like this one because of the weight)

Fast4ward Peak (21Kg, £999, 8 Gears, 3 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, Panasonic 9AH Battery)

The Fast4ward Peak has a torque sensor, although it does also have a throttle. That's quite unusual especially at the £1000 price point. I tested the Fast4ward Peak on two occasions. On the first test ride I was quite impressed with it, on the second (at a different bike shop) there was some 'play' in the crank which I hadn't noticed at all on the first test ride. It felt a bit odd when setting off from a standing start and it really put me off the bike. Apparently it's something to do with the torque sensor, it's mentioned on this video review

It was otherwise a really nice bike to ride, if somewhat basic in terms of spec, but as you are in any case looking specifically for a bike with a pedal (cadence) sensor you might want to cross it off your list.

I note that two of your requirements are lightness and stealth i.e. a bike which doesn't obviously look like an ebike. With that in mind another option worth considering is a conversion kit. It would of course require some handy work on your part but for around £1000 you could purchase the Ezee Mk2 kit with downtube mounted battery or the OXYDrive CST HT 13Ah kit and a good quality MTB or hybrid bike on which to mount it. I think I'm right in saying that the Ezee kit is more or less identical to the electrical drive unit on the Ezee bikes i.e., powerful and good quality with a solid reputation, same can be said of the OXYDrive kit which is the same drive unit as on the Oxygen MTB 13ah. They can both be de-restricted if that is desired, which would make the bike illegal in most places, even off-road, but the option would be there should you want it.

I had a test ride on an MTB fitted with the Ezee Mk2 conversion kit. To say it was powerful would be an understatement. The lightness of the bike combined with the powerful motor and 20amp controller made for one seriously rapid bike.

http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-conversion-kits.html

http://www.oxydrive.co.uk/electric-bike-kit/oxydrive-cst-ht-13ah.html

 

[Alan103]

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the Woosh Sport CD. I have narrowed my choice to this and the Burisch Synergy GT250 which I have found some kind of info on but would like to know more about the Woosh bike before I decide.

 

[tapash]

The Fast4ward Peak has a torque sensor, although it does also have a throttle. That's quite unusual especially at the £1000 price point. I tested the Fast4ward Peak on two occasions. On the first test ride I was quite impressed with it, on the second (at a different bike shop) there was some 'play' in the crank which I hadn't noticed at all on the first test ride. It felt a bit odd when setting off from a standing start and it really put me off the bike. Apparently it's something to do with the torque sensor, it's mentioned on this video review

It was otherwise a really nice bike to ride, if somewhat basic in terms of spec, but as you are in any case looking specifically for a bike with a pedal (cadence) sensor you might want to cross it off your list.

I note that two of your requirements are lightness and stealth i.e. a bike which doesn't obviously look like an ebike. With that in mind another option worth considering is a conversion kit. It would of course require some handy work on your part but for around £1000 you could purchase the Ezee Mk2 kit with downtube mounted battery or the OXYDrive CST HT 13Ah kit and a good quality MTB or hybrid bike on which to mount it. I think I'm right in saying that the Ezee kit is more or less identical to the electrical drive unit on the Ezee bikes i.e., powerful and good quality with a solid reputation, same can be said of the OXYDrive kit which is the same drive unit as on the Oxygen MTB 13ah. They can both be de-restricted if that is desired, which would make the bike illegal in most places, even off-road, but the option would be there should you want it.

I had a test ride on an MTB fitted with the Ezee Mk2 conversion kit. To say it was powerful would be an understatement. The lightness of the bike combined with the powerful motor and 20amp controller made for one seriously rapid bike.

http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-conversion-kits.html

http://www.oxydrive.co.uk/electric-bike-kit/oxydrive-cst-ht-13ah.html

Thanks 2lazy, For pointing out the issue with fast4ward. its a bit disappointing, because I quiet kinda like that bike.

Anyways moving onto the kit, I have actually thought about the kit before, spent some time also researching, specially Oxygen was my favourite, just because the way it looks and integrated controller with battery. But I hardly could find a instructional video from Oxyzen. Thats kinda sucks, if i get stuck halfway and no help to finish the rest!! Although I can always call them but still seeing and instruction over phone is a lot different, at least for me.

Another point with the kit fitting in my current bike is it costs almost same as a new complete bike with warranty and support from supplier. What to speak of having the suspension fork, disc brake etc. My current bike is ~12.5Kg, either of the kit you have mentioned is going to add another ~8kg. So, there we are, ~20Kg, almost same as a brand new bike. On top I would be saving lot of time and hassle to fitting it myself. All these things does not encourage me going thru the "Conversion Kit" route.

 

[tapash]

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the Woosh Sport CD. I have narrowed my choice to this and the Burisch Synergy GT250 which I have found some kind of info on but would like to know more about the Woosh bike before I decide.

Thanks Alan, I have overlooked the Woosh Sport CD. This will also go in my list now...

Woosh Sport-CD (21Kg £775, 8 Gears, 5 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, TCM Motor, 9AH Samsung Battery, adjustable stem) OOS ATM

Woosh Zepheyr-B (22Kg £920, 7 Gears, 6 PAS & twist Throttle, LCD monitor, 8Fun BPM Motor, adjustable stem, 10AH Battery)

Burisch (20.5kg, £659 7 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, adjustable stem, 9AH Battery)

Greenedge CS2 (19kg, £599, 6 Gears, 3 PAS & Thumb Throttle, Samsung 9AH Battery, I like this one because of the weight)

 

[trex]

I thinkyou get a couple of things wrong: the price of the Burisch is higher than £599 and the Sport CD has the TCM crank drive, not 8-Fun motor and is out of stock at the moment.
The CS2 is good value, the Burisch is good looking.
If you can get the Burisch cheaply and locally, go for it.

 

[tapash]

I thinkyou get a couple of things wrong: the price of the Burisch is higher than £599 and the Sport CD has the TCM crank drive, not 8-Fun motor and is out of stock at the moment.
The CS2 is good value, the Burisch is good looking.
If you can get the Burisch cheaply and locally, go for it.

Thanks copy paste error. Corrected now.

 

[2Lazy]

Anyways moving onto the kit, I have actually thought about the kit before, spent some time also researching, specially Oxygen was my favourite, just because the way it looks and integrated controller with battery. But I hardly could find a instructional video from Oxyzen. Thats kinda sucks, if i get stuck halfway and no help to finish the rest!! Although I can always call them but still seeing and instruction over phone is a lot different, at least for me.

Another point with the kit fitting in my current bike is it costs almost same as a new complete bike with warranty and support from supplier. What to speak of having the suspension fork, disc brake etc. My current bike is ~12.5Kg, either of the kit you have mentioned is going to add another ~8kg. So, there we are, ~20Kg, almost same as a brand new bike. On top I would be saving lot of time and hassle to fitting it myself. All these things does not encourage me going thru the "Conversion Kit" route.

I was suggesting you purchase a kit and a new bike on which to fit it as opposed to fitting it to your existing bike, but the latter could also be an option and would obviously save you the cost of a new bike. I understand your concerns but ultimately you get what pay for and with a budget of £1000 you will need to compromise somewhere. If you choose one of the sub £1000 bikes on your list you'll get a new bike but the electric drive system probably won't be as powerful as the Oxydrive or Ezee kits. And the bike will likely not be of the same quality of say a new £300 to £400 regular bike fitted with a conversion kit which overall could cost the same or not much more. Also worth bearing mind that that the Ezee kit comes with a two year warranty.

Both kits are good but personally I would favour the Ezee conversion kit over the Oxydrive kit. If you like the downtube battery with integrated controller the Ezee kit also has this. If you're considering the kit option it would be worth having a chat with Cyclezee. I'm sure he could provide further advice on the kit and fitting etc. Also the bike with the Ezee kit that I had test ride on was for sale, and might still be.

 

[NY-EBikes]

I was just re-reading your posts to try and figure out what you wanted, and I see that you ruled out the Emate because there was no stock. I was up in Yorkshire yesterday, where I popped in to SYEBC. They had Emates everywhere with no room to store them. Who told you that there was no stock? They had a nice white Emate MTB ex-demo that a guy was trying. If you give them a call, you might get it at a good price. It only had a few miles on the clock and was like new.

In asking us to tell you which bike is best, it's the same as asking which is best out of chocolate cake or strawberry gateaux. I've ridden just about every type of electric bike. There's not one that I would be unhappy with if it was the only one I could have. Some people have specific preferences for specific reasons, but you haven't put any specific constraints on your choice presumably because you don't need to.

Key deciding points:

If you can't fix anything, you need a local supplier.
If you don't know how to fix electrical things, choose a supplier with a good returns service.
If you're a sporting cyclist, get a torque sensor bike
If you're very heavy (100kg +), you need a high torque motor.
If you want to go fast, get one where you can adjust the speed limit yourself.

Nobody can say what's a good quality bike. When you bought a £3000 bike online and your display needs a reset, you'll suddenly realise what bad quality means. It will be just the same when you bought a £600 bike directly from China that packs up on the first day and the supplier won't respond to your emails. Whatever you do, there's always elements of risk and chance. Thankfully, most ebikes are OK.

Back to the question: Which is best chocolate fudge cake or strawberry gateau? If it's the gateaux, should I get the expensive one with real cream or the cheaper one with synthetic cream?

If you want a quality European pedelec with plenty of power check out our website.The KTM & Bergamont models are very competitively priced too!!
Tony. North Yorkshire Electric Bikes.

 

[tapash]

I just found out that Burisch has twist throttle 15.5mph and single mode pedal assist with similar speed. I was thinking it would have at least 3 PAS. And there is no LCD too. Thats a bit of put off...!!!???
Is Vita Uno the same type of PAS?
What do you guys think? Is there anything wrong about single mode PAS? Pros cons?

 

[trex]

it's nice to have more assist levels but you don't need more than 3.
Now you know quite a lot about e-bikes, go try a few to find out what you like and don't like and work out which side you are on, hub or crank drive.

 

[LEBC Tom]

I just found out that Burisch has twist throttle 15.5mph and single mode pedal assist with similar speed. I was thinking it would have at least 3 PAS. And there is no LCD too. Thats a bit of put off...!!!???
Is Vita Uno the same type of PAS?
What do you guys think? Is there anything wrong about single mode PAS? Pros cons?

The Vita Uno has 3 PAS but no LCD. There's the KUDOS Tornado which is close to your budget which seems to tick your boxes.

I'm also pretty close to you, why not pop in and borrow a bike to try out, do the actual route you'll be looking to make daily?

 

[RobF]

and borrow a bike to try out, do the actual route you'll be looking to make daily?

Good to see a retailer offering a proper demo.

 

[Croxden]

it's nice to have more assist levels but you don't need more than 3.
Now you know quite a lot about e-bikes, go try a few to find out what you like and don't like and work out which side you are on, hub or crank drive.

Neither do you need lots of gears, but you would never sell me one.

 

[Alan103]

I just found out that Burisch has twist throttle 15.5mph and single mode pedal assist with similar speed. I was thinking it would have at least 3 PAS. And there is no LCD too. Thats a bit of put off...!!!????
What do you guys think? Is there anything wrong about single mode PAS? Pros cons?

I wasn't keen on the idea of a twist throttle myself or in fact having a throttle on the same side as the back brake lever for that matter, but I tried out a couple of bikes and can honestly say I didn't mind either twist or thumb throttle but it did confirm I definitely wanted some kind of throttle on it.
I'm trying to decide about the level of assist needed, whether it matters or not, do I want all or nothing, If you want a bike that runs on power, do you really want to go slow? Just turn the power off and peddle as slow as you like and when you need the power, use it, just a thought.
I was also put off this bike slightly because there was no LCD, but there is a plus side to that, one less thing to get damaged or stolen, also helps the bike look more like a bike, so haven't ruled it out as yet, but I am still looking.

 

[tapash]

I wasn't keen on the idea of a twist throttle myself or in fact having a throttle on the same side as the back brake lever for that matter, but I tried out a couple of bikes and can honestly say I didn't mind either twist or thumb throttle but it did confirm I definitely wanted some kind of throttle on it.
I'm trying to decide about the level of assist needed, whether it matters or not, do I want all or nothing, If you want a bike that runs on power, do you really want to go slow? Just turn the power off and peddle as slow as you like and when you need the power, use it, just a thought.
I was also put off this bike slightly because there was no LCD, but there is a plus side to that, one less thing to get damaged or stolen, also helps the bike look more like a bike, so haven't ruled it out as yet, but I am still looking.

Hi, I agree with your point of getting one extra thing stolen. But thats just one of the optional item in my list anyway, I wasn't so much bothered as long as I can have the other important features I wanted. Now, I had to cross out Burisch from my list due to the fact that it has ONLY 1 pedel assist function which works 15.5mph. So its as good as not having it. because you can do that with throttle anyway. or vice versa. Why create duplication of the same features?? and pay extra. In that regards, vita Uno now gets place into my shortlist, considering 3 level PAS & Throttle, and costs £60 less than Burisch, looks also pretty much similar. I think Vita uno also does not have LCD but a small cheap looking controller.