One law for the rich etc

[funkylyn]

For what it's worth, I can't agree with you over this. The law, however flawed, trivial and at times ineffective, is all that we have standing between what we have now and chaotic anarchy, and I don't believe that there can be any self justification for manipulating it to suit individual circumstances. If a person breaks the law, and is caught, they must take the medicine. By all means put forward mitigation but don't lie, it's an ugly character trait.

I'm not saying that I don't drive at excess speed and all the other, minor things, I do. But when caught, and I have been, I take it on the chin. A few years ago, I could have easily got away with a speeding fine, but I didn't. I'd committed the offence, been fairly caught by a camera and felt compelled to take the points and pay the fine. Due to the circumstances, I could have easily got out of this with a result of no one being fined or receiving points. I try to live my life by being open and honest over all matters both serious and minor. This has served me well because I am honoured by the fact that the people I associate with trust me, and I am surrounded by people who I have complete trust in too. It's a nice feeling.

I'm afraid to say that anyone who is a bit, dodgy with the truth, gets a wide berth.

Well, we are all different and what is seen as serious to one person is seen as more trivial to another....thats life, I may not agree with your opinions either but I respect your right to them.

I suppose I subscribe to the 'white lie' theory in life, I dont think it makes me a worse person, or indeed untrustworthy, I think there are a lot more important and serious things in life to worry about than asking my partner to possibly take 3 points on his licence.

After all, some may say that you admitting to driving at excess speed is an ugly character trait too......and your friends still apparently like and trust you.......perhaps, as you say that you like to live your life being "open and honest over all matters ", some could say that that should cover driving at all times within the speed limit, but of course, in reality, life isnt like that, we all break laws at some time, hopefully all minor ones, and I for one refuse to be sanctimonious about others frailties, Im a realist, we are none of us perfect.

I might add that I too have a nice feeling being surrounded by my many friends who like and trust me implicitly....... even if I did once think about the possibility of letting my husband take my points so that we could both continue driving, working and supporting our family.

And if you are still being 'dodgy with the truth' over your speeding I think I would be giving you a wide berth too ......

Lynda

 

[50 Hertz]

Well, we are all different and what is seen as serious to one person is seen as more trivial to another....thats life, I may not agree with your opinions either but I respect your right to them.

I suppose I subscribe to the 'white lie' theory in life, I dont think it makes me a worse person, or indeed untrustworthy, I think there are a lot more important and serious things in life to worry about than asking my partner to possibly take 3 points on his licence.

After all, some may say that you admitting to driving at excess speed is an ugly character trait too......and your friends still apparently like and trust you.......perhaps, as you say that you like to live your life being "open and honest over all matters ", some could say that that should cover driving at all times within the speed limit, but of course, in reality, life isnt like that, we all break laws at some time, hopefully all minor ones, and I for one refuse to be sanctimonious about others frailties, Im a realist, we are none of us perfect.

I might add that I too have a nice feeling being surrounded by my many friends who like and trust me implicitly....... even if I did once think about the possibility of letting my husband take my points so that we could both continue driving, working and supporting our family.

And if you are still being 'dodgy with the truth' over your speeding I think I would be giving you a wide berth too ......

Lynda

I can't see how a person admitting to a speeding offence, when caught, can make that person untrustworthy in the eyes of another. But, as you say, we are different and probably associate with people who have different values.

In some cases of speeding, probably quite a few actually, the offence is due to a lapse in concentration or an error of judgement. An element of wilfulness is usually missing. With points dodging, or to give it it's proper name, perjury, the mens rea is completely different. The perjurer sets out with a mindset intent on deception. The sole aim is to deceive another person, usually through the deployment of lies, into believing that you are not guilty of an offence. All I am saying is that particular character trait is not for me. I try my absolute best to be truthful and honest and I look for that in others. It upsets me to see someone deceived, persuaded and guided into taking a course of action based on the untruthfulness of another person. It's vile. And that includes deceiving a person who is employed by an agency, such as a court or local authority, to carry out a certain task. This way of life doesn't make me feel superior or better than anyone else, but it gives me a comfortable feeling which is hard to describe. Any accusations of superiority usually comes from those who are quite comfortable deceiving and lying, so can be easily dismissed.

 

[SRS]

I can't see how a person admitting to a speeding offence, when caught, can make that person untrustworthy in the eyes of another. But, as you say, we are different and probably associate with people who have different values.

In some cases of speeding, probably quite a few actually, the offence is due to a lapse in concentration or an error of judgement. An element of wilfulness is usually missing. With points dodging, or to give it it's proper name, perjury, the mens rea is completely different. The perjurer sets out with a mindset intent on deception. The sole aim is to deceive another person, usually through the deployment of lies, into believing that you are not guilty of an offence. All I am saying is that particular character trait is not for me. I try my absolute best to be truthful and honest and I look for that in others. It upsets me to see someone deceived, persuaded and guided into taking a course of action based on the untruthfulness of another person. It's vile. And that includes deceiving a person who is employed by an agency, such as a court or local authority, to carry out a certain task. This way of life doesn't make me feel superior or better than anyone else, but it gives me a comfortable feeling which is hard to describe. Any accusations of superiority usually comes from those who are quite comfortable deceiving and lying, so can be easily dismissed.

You are however comfortable hoping and suggesting that another human being should be raped.
You can keep your comfortable feelings if that's what you are about.

Oh and by the way, I have friend that was raped in her earlier years.

 

[funkylyn]

I can't see how a person admitting to a speeding offence, when caught, can make that person untrustworthy in the eyes of another. But, as you say, we are different and probably associate with people who have different values.

In some cases of speeding, probably quite a few actually, the offence is due to a lapse in concentration or an error of judgement. An element of wilfulness is usually missing. With points dodging, or to give it it's proper name, perjury, the mens rea is completely different. The perjurer sets out with a mindset intent on deception. The sole aim is to deceive another person, usually through the deployment of lies, into believing that you are not guilty of an offence. All I am saying is that particular character trait is not for me. I try my absolute best to be truthful and honest and I look for that in others. It upsets me to see someone deceived, persuaded and guided into taking a course of action based on the untruthfulness of another person. It's vile. And that includes deceiving a person who is employed by an agency, such as a court or local authority, to carry out a certain task. This way of life doesn't make me feel superior or better than anyone else, but it gives me a comfortable feeling which is hard to describe. Any accusations of superiority usually comes from those who are quite comfortable deceiving and lying, so can be easily dismissed.

Well, I know Ive been away for a few weeks but this is still the Pedelecs Bike forum isnt it ?
I havent inadvertently landed on the Planet Zarg have I ?
Or 'perfection central'.....

Am I missing something here ?
Does every speeding ticket issued result in a court case ?
I thought you just had to declare who was driving the car and pay the fine and take the points....so whether it was me or my husband is really besides the point.
I would never stand up in court and lie.....that is a different thing altogether. THAT is perjury.....

Im not talking about perjury.....I am talking about one person being named instead of the other.

As for speeding, Im afraid in most cases its actually a case of everyone making the choice to drive that bit faster, you know the scenario.....speed limit on the motorway is 70mph, most people know that 80mph is usually tolerated by the police, anything over that then you run the risk of being pulled over.


Please dont worry over finding it hard to describe how comfortable you feel, its ok, I know the feeling well

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

I see that Hulme has now been released from prison. When he gets home, I hope that Trimingham pokes his eyes out with one of her cocks whilst a crazed jackal simultaneously attacks his @rsehole with a toffee hammer.

Are these really the words of a man who has such a nice feeling being comfortable in the knowledge that his friends all respect and trust him for his abhorrence of all things illegal dishonest and untrustworthy.....a man who tries to stay within the law and tell the truth at all times ....or are they the words of someone else altogether........

Lynda

 

[50 Hertz]

Are these really the words of a man who has such a nice feeling being comfortable in the knowledge that his friends all respect and trust him for his abhorrence of all things illegal dishonest and untrustworthy.....a man who tries to stay within the law and tell the truth at all times ....or are they the words of someone else altogether........

Lynda

JOKES!!!!! JOKES BASED ON THE MOST PERVERSE AND OUTRAGEOUS THINGS I CAN THINK OF. I FIND HUMOUR IN SUGGESTING THINGS THAT ARE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. No one has been lied to. No one has been killed. No one has suffered a loss. No one has been disadvantaged.

You see, this is exactly what I am on about. Defensive behaviour. All I have said is that I detest lies and deception. Must have touched a nerve!

 

[funkylyn]

I think I had better do a 'major tom' head up into the stratosphere and then land again and see if I can figure out who has been killed, suffered a loss or been disadvantaged......or even maybe see who is being defensive, bearing in mind that personally I havent actually ever done anything over 'sharing' speeding points......so I have no need or desire to be defensive, merely pointing out that Im quite happy in my own skin and dont feel the need to wish or 'joke' about violence on someone I dont even know just because he has been released from prison early

I do however think it was wrong of them to lie in court......it was just unfortunate that it got there in the first place.......I tell you......it just goes to show....you can never trust a woman to keep her mouth shut....at least not after you leave her for another one

Lynda

 

[SRS]

Lynda

The guys got a sick sense of humour. I have not. In fact I could not have dreamed up some of his disgusting comments.

As for Chris Huhne, I hope he lands on his feet.

 

[50 Hertz]

As for Chris Huhne, I hope he lands on his feet.

**Moderated**

I have got a sick sense of humour, I can't defend myself against that.

I do not wish you, Linda, Chris Huhne or anyone else any harm. I only wish you happiness and good health always.

 

[funkylyn]

Well, as I said before, we are all different, some of us would dare to swap points or speed at times some of us have a really sick sense of humour, but hey....guess what....we all LOVE electric bikes.....so you see, its not hard to remember we all share some common ground........ just a bit difficult at times

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

OK.......Group Hug......

Lynda

 

[Scimitar]

For what it's worth, I can't agree with you over this. The law, however flawed, trivial and at times ineffective, is all that we have standing between what we have now and chaotic anarchy, and I don't believe that there can be any self justification for manipulating it to suit individual circumstances. If a person breaks the law, and is caught, they must take the medicine. By all means put forward mitigation but don't lie, it's an ugly character trait.

I'm not saying that I don't drive at excess speed and all the other, minor things, I do. But when caught, and I have been, I take it on the chin. A few years ago, I could have easily got away with a speeding fine, but I didn't. I'd committed the offence, been fairly caught by a camera and felt compelled to take the points and pay the fine. Due to the circumstances, I could have easily got out of this with a result of no one being fined or receiving points. I try to live my life by being open and honest over all matters both serious and minor. This has served me well because I am honoured by the fact that the people I associate with trust me, and I am surrounded by people who I have complete trust in too. It's a nice feeling.

I'm afraid to say that anyone who is a bit, dodgy with the truth, gets a wide berth.

I agree with all of that. I don't want to come across in any way self-righteous (heavens knows, I'm not) but whenever I've had my collar felt I just stand up in court and tell my story with a pained expression. It's often worked for me
One occasion I had the court in a fit of laughter when it came out I'd called the speed cops 'yuppie scum' because they'd been driving a late-model Beemer which was up my **** and I did actually think it was occupied by a pair of Hooray-Henrys.

 

[flecc]

As 50Hertz pointed out, Chris Huhne was convicted of perverting the course of justice, for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. That sentencing scale reflects the seriousness of this offence, perjury which can and does send others to prison unfairly, or sometimes for many years quite wrongly.

Even in that case, his ex-wife suffered a prison sentence and criminal record in consequence, neither of which would ever have happened if he'd told the truth. In my view his ex-wife is now entitled to seek some restitution in the civil courts, at least for the prosecution case costs which she now faces.

 

[daveboy]

As 50Hertz pointed out, Chris Huhne was convicted of perverting the course of justice, for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. That sentencing scale reflects the seriousness of this offence, perjury which can and does send others to prison unfairly, or sometimes for many years quite wrongly.

Even in that case, his ex-wife suffered a prison sentence and criminal record in consequence, neither of which would ever have happened if he'd told the truth. In my view his ex-wife is now entitled to seek some restitution in the civil courts, at least for the prosecution case costs which she now faces.

His ex-wife started all this by going to the papers and recording phone calls in the hope of costing
him his job.All because he went off with a younger woman.Do you think he made her take the points.
Have you seen her on tv. I doubt anybody could tell her what to do.David

 

[flecc]

His ex-wife started all this by going to the papers and recording phone calls in the hope of costing
him his job.All because he went off with a younger woman.Do you think he made her take the points.
Have you seen her on tv. I doubt anybody could tell her what to do.David

Those spiteful actions did not constitute an offence though, and they were long after the offence so are not in any way relevant. People should only be tried for offences, not for our opinions of them.

He was the direct cause of not only his original speeding offence but also his and her perversions of justice.

 

[daveboy]

Those spiteful actions did not constitute an offence though, and they were long after the offence so are not in any way relevant. People should only be tried for offences, not for our opinions of them.

He was the direct cause of not only his original speeding offence but also his and her perversions of justice.

I agree,But all this happened 10 years ago and her spitefullness brought it to light.How did he cause
her to pervert the course of justice . She did that the second she signed the notice of intended prosecution unless you are saying he made her do it and the court rejected that argument.David

 

[flecc]

How did he cause her to pervert the course of justice . She did that the second she signed the notice of intended prosecution

That's incorrect David, the perversion of justice occurred long before, it was when she first took the points on her licence, and that is what she was tried for.

When a crime comes to light isn't relevant, only when the crime is committed counts. That is why only the laws and sentencing rules in force at the time of a crime are used for sentencing, unless parliament has made a specific exception.

 

[funkylyn]

So, just to make this clear for me flecc, IF my ex had taken my points years ago and the case didnt actually have to go to court,and was all dealt with by post, would that still be called perjury ?

I had always presumed that you actually had to lie in court for it to be actual perjury if Im wrong then all I can say is thank god it never happened in my case.

Mind you, would that just have applied to him not me ?
In other words would I still have been treat as "innocent" in the eyes of the court if I didnt actually have to appear in the court and speak, seeing as there would not have been any dispute between us both as he would have just agreed he was the driver ?

Lynda

 

[daveboy]

That's incorrect David, the perversion of justice occurred long before, it was when she first took the points on her licence, and that is what she was tried for.

When a crime comes to light isn't relevant, only when the crime is committed counts. That is why only the laws and sentencing rules in force at the time of a crime are used for sentencing, unless parliament has made a specific exception.

The notice of intended prosecution (n.i.p) came before the points on her licence that is when the police ask who is driving. David

 

[mike killay]

My view is different.
They both conspired to pervert the course of justice.
Conspiracy is,
Two or more agree to do something unlawful by unlawful means,
Two or more conspire to do something unlawful by lawful means,
Two or more conspire to do something lawful by unlawful means.
The court rejected all claims that Mrs Huhne was pressured into the conspiracy.
I think that she is equally guilty