News: ‘Twist and go’ type approval guidance emerges

[flecc]

would they though?

that would be a backdoor for anyone buying a manufactured bike with a socket for a thumb throttle to add it in themselves.

I see nothing wrong with that, since it fits with the DfT desire to allow pedelecs with throttles to still be considered as EAPCs.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Take France for example. There one can drive certain 45 kph (almost 30 mph) light cars, known as quadricycles, without a driving licence, that including youngsters. Here's the regulation loophole:

European legislation on driving and licence conditions is based on directive 91/439, which defines driving licence requirements for different categories of motor vehicles, from two-wheelers upwards.
This directive defines a licence B1 for heavy motorised quadricycles, but does not include any particular provision for light motorised quadricycles. Each European country is therefore free to allow - or not - driving without a licence.
.

Below is the legislation in detail in the "langue de Molière", Google does quite well at translating it. It goes to show that a country inside the EU can sway the rest if the Union to adopt particular laws, maybe the UK could do the same with full speed throttles on pedelecs?

---

Depuis 1992, la législation européenne s’est alignée sur la législation française du « sans permis », ce qui, soit dit en passant, a eu, pour effet immédiat de booster les volumes de production des constructeurs français.
Dans toute l’Europe, les voitures sans permis rentrent donc dans la catégorie des quadricycles légers qui sont :

• des véhicules dont la masse à vide est limitée à 350 kg ;
• dont le moteur ne doit pas développer plus de 4 kW (5,6 ch) ;
• et dont la vitesse est inférieure à 45 km/h.

En France, la règle générale impose d’avoir 16 ans révolus pour pouvoir prendre le volant d’une voiture sans permis.

Ensuite, deux cas se présentent en fonction de la date de naissance du conducteur :

• Le conducteur est né après le 1er janvier 1988

Il devra non seulement être âgé de plus de 16 ans mais être également titulaire :

- du BSR*, option « quadricycle léger » (qui comporte un petit examen théorique et une formation pratique de trois heures sans examen).
- ou d’un permis moto ou auto.

• Le conducteur est né avant le 1er janvier 1988

La conduite est libre. Pas besoin de permis ni de BSR.

*Brevet Securité Routière which is passed in general at age 14 in college.

 

[flecc]

Google's translation:

Since 1992, European legislation has aligned with the French law "without license", which, incidentally, has had the immediate effect of boosting production volumes of French manufacturers.
Across Europe, the unlicensed cars therefore fall into the category of light quadricycles which are:

vehicles whose unladen mass is limited to 350 kg;
whose engine does not develop more than 4 kW (5.6 hp);
and whose speed is below 45 km / h.

In France, the general rule requires having 16 years to be able to drive a car without a license. Then two cases arise depending on the date of birth of the driver:

The driver was born after 1 January 1988

It will not only be over 16 but also hold:

- BSR *, option "light quadricycle" (which has a small theoretical and practical training of three hours without review).

- Or a motorcycle or car license.

The driver was born before January 1, 1988

Driving is free. No need to license or BSR.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Helen,

Firstly I don't think BAGB could be persuaded to support the cause of the inclusion of an independent power modulator (a throttle as defined in the proposed delegated regulations) into regulation EU168/2013 Article 2 exemption (2h) namely an EPAC.

EPAC implies assistance for all those that require it (potentially 90 million EU citizens) but the current definition denies that primary objective to be achieved.

I believe that the UK member state would like to achieve that objective with their new harmonized EAPC law but are hampered by the EU definition.

Resolving the UK problem by finding loopholes which can later be closed is not, in my opinion, the way to go.

EU clarification is required on how the current definition was determined and whether any legal testing regarding it's compatibility with the EU human rights treaties were satisfied.

If it was not tested, then a challenge could be made at the highest level. Others groups have taken this same route using the same argument and were successful.

http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/l1e-a-testing-requirements.22843/page-2#post-288954

This challenge would have to come with the support of the UK member state together with the united support of UK independent dealers and consumers as I doubt if any other member states see it as a priority as they have willingly accepted it in the past and would have no knowledge of the problem as they have denied their own citizens the freedom that the UK citizens have experienced.

The EU have already provisionally conceded the use of various assistance modulators (their definition) which includes the power modulator (throttle) for powered cycle class L1e-A vehicles in the proposed amended delegated regulations, so I also believe they are not totally closed to the idea.

I cannot see any reason to give weight to any objections from either the motorbike or bicycle industry organizations as they are free to compete in the newly created market and there is nothing to stop them from designing and producing their own vehicles and placing them on the market.

The only relevant competition would be to new Two-wheel moped class L1e-B vehicles that can operate up to 45kph but they would have to obey the same type approval conditions that Mopeds that have been produced in the past by many member states, the only exception being the newly amended proposed speed pedelec (contained within class L1e-B vehicles) which may not have to comply with all the rules as it has been limited to a maximum power of 1.6 x 500W measured at the motor shaft and not the proposed 4kW maximum power.

 

[trex]

according to Hatti@woosh, nobody at the VCA knows where she can get her bikes tested yet.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Trex, in a nutshell this is my understanding.

There isn't anywhere or any way of testing them outside moped classification.

From 1/1/2016, 100% throttles are outside the law if they propel the bike over 4mph unless the rider is putting some effort into pedaling the bike.

All the best, David

 

[trex]

according to my sources, nobody at the DfT or the VCA can categorically say what the situation is.
In view that the DfT is not anti-throttle, there is an issue of continuation of supply after old 2015 stocks run out. My guess is that the VCA should be ready by the end of this year to issue TA certificates.
There isn't any technical aspect specific to the throttle, the test is verification of compliance to EN15194. If the bike is compliant, there is no ground for refusal, so it should be rubber stamping.
The delay is purely administrative.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree there is no way of testing the bikes but according to the BA the DfT have stated that a twist and go throttle is outside the law.

As much as I would love to turn on all my throttles, doing so after reading the statements from the DfT would be asking for trouble.

Most importantly, I would not want any of my customers taking that risk on my behalf. The penalties for riding an unregistered, uninsured etc. vehicle are very harsh and could result in the rider being heavily fined and loosing their driving licence if they have one.

 

[trex]

...
Most importantly, I would not want any of my customers taking that risk on my behalf. The penalties for riding an unregistered, uninsured etc. vehicle are very harsh and could result in the rider being heavily fined and loosing their driving licence if they have one.

I think the DfT have made this point clear: the customers have nothing to fear.
There is no need to be alarmed because you've bought or ride a bike with throttle.

The responsibility of making the bike type approved rests with the importers/sellers. Penalties for non-compliance will only be applicable to the importers and sellers.
This thread should have made this point clear right at the beginning not to alarm the vast majority of readers.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Of course you are correct Trex, no one should be alarmed if they have a throttle on a bike as long as the bike was imported prior to 1st January 2016.

My advice, the advice of the DfT and the BA is not to buy or ride a bike with a full twist and go throttle if it was imported after the 1st January 2016. If a vehicle needs type approval to be legal on the roads but does not have it. The rider is most definitely at fault.

 

[trex]

you seem to be at odd with what HelenJ posted in this thread:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/twist-go-type-approval-guidance-emerges/

In a response to Pedelecs, the DfT clarified: “The responsibility for obtaining type approval (or single approval) rests squarely with the manufacturer or retailer. The user is not committing an offence by riding or purchasing a non-approved bike.”

specifically the highlighted line.
Clearly, riding a non-approved bike is not the same as riding an illegal bike without throttle.

 

[flecc]

I think the DfT have made this point clear: the customers have nothing to fear.
There is no need to be alarmed because you've bought or ride a bike with throttle.

The responsibility of making the bike type approved rests with the importers/sellers. Penalties for non-compliance will only be applicable to the importers and sellers.
This thread should have made this point clear right at the beginning not to alarm the vast majority of readers.

But the law doesn't say that, and that is the problem at present.

There are two possible legal consequences. First of prosecution for using an unregistered motor vehicle, though the DfT would stop that if it was taken to them.

Second the liability in a civil court following an accident and a claim for compensation. Then only the law would count. And the situation there remains vague.
.

 

[trex]

...
Second the liability in a civil court following an accident and a claim for compensation. The only the law would count. And the situation there remains vague.
.

As you said, the situation remains vague. The civil court would be concerned with what amount of compensation is right for the case. Not automatically for the plaintiff because the type approval is lacking.

 

[flecc]

As you said, the situation remains vague. The civil court would be concerned with what amount of compensation is right for the case. Not automatically for the plaintiff because the type approval is lacking.

But what about the legal position that it's an unregistered motor vehicle being used at present? Surely that would be more likely to influence the liability decision than the technicality of type approval?

We shouldn't forget that in this area the EU law is paramount and takes precedent, and in EU law a twist and go pedelec is currently a motor vehicle.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Although the situation is not clear, my understanding is that and the law currently disallows the use of a full throttle. I don't think any reputable electric bike manufacturer or importer would take the chance of putting their customers at risk, whether they are retailers or end users.

If and only if we get a firm statement from the DfT to say that we can import and sell EAPCs with a full throttle of course we will immediately make them available.

Until then we will remain within the law.

All our bikes have just been issued with new EN15194 certificates, I must admit to not knowing if an EAPC with a full throttle would pass?

 

[trex]

Although the situation is not clear, my understanding is that and the law currently disallows the use of a full throttle. I don't think any reputable electric bike manufacturer or importer would take the chance of putting their customers at risk, whether they are retailers or end users.

If and only if we get a firm statement from the DfT to say that we can import and sell EAPCs with a full throttle of course we will immediately make them available.

Until then we will remain within the law.

All our bikes have just been issued with new EN15194 certificates, I must admit to not knowing if an EAPC with a full throttle would pass?

I think most sellers would only supply a throttle on individual customers' request.
They are not daft enough to leave it plugged in if the customers can do without.

 

[shemozzle999]

Here is the official view

"The Motorcycle Industry Association (MCIA) and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain (BA) are the two trade associations responsible for the growing of the e-bike sector"

http://www.mcia.co.uk/About/News/Article/Electric-bicycle-moped-or-motorcycle-Can-you-tell-your-e-bike-from-your-elbow.aspx

 

[anotherkiwi]

Here is the official view

"The Motorcycle Industry Association (MCIA) and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain (BA) are the two trade associations responsible for the growing of the e-bike sector"

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/when-does-an-e-bike-become-a-moped/019573

Aren't they so vain! Consumers are responsible for the growth of any sector if it concerns a product they want or need. But I guess it is embarrassing for marketing people to reply "I am a snake oil merchant" when asked what they do...

 

[flecc]

Here is the official view

"The Motorcycle Industry Association (MCIA) and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain (BA) are the two trade associations responsible for the growing of the e-bike sector"

http://www.mcia.co.uk/About/News/Article/Electric-bicycle-moped-or-motorcycle-Can-you-tell-your-e-bike-from-your-elbow.aspx

Useless as expected. Their simple view of the pedelec law was far too incomplete and their attempt to impose their own classification names is inaccurate, unnecessary and likely to confuse.
.

 

[EddieH]

Another good reason to leave Europe.