New to forum, advice gratefully received!

[Joe]

i think battery replacement price does put people off electric bikes as does reliability issues. of course dealing with cars (seperating them from cyclists) and our road network are huge disincentives too for 2 wheel use.

 

[richard]

Consider this, you have huge conglomerates like motor companies, mobile phone companies, computer companies investing millions in research and development in battery technology, they in the main, have sufficient capital to wait for a return on their investement.
We are in a minority,at the moment. Our demands are being researched and developed by a limited amount of companies that can't to wait too long for a return on their investement. As for cost I have no idea with regard to bicycle batteries but I can say in my own experience of ambularitory brain and heart monitors 45% of the end price was for the recovery of R&D.
However I look forward to new developments which seem to be on the horizon, but one thing is for sure, we will pay for them !!
Richard

 

[mk1]

Personally I think a lot of people are unrealistic about the price they should pay for bicycles in general, electric or not. A minimum price for a reasonable quality non electric bike in my opinion would be around £400, yet many seem to want a fast reliable ebike for under £400, and then complain when it doesn't meet their expectations and starts falling to bits after a few weeks use.
As for batteries If they last for 2 years I think £300 is fair.

Martin

 

[flecc]

However I look forward to new developments which seem to be on the horizon, but one thing is for sure, we will pay for them !!
Richard

I can confirm that Richard.

One of the new generation Li-ion batteries due shortly has an ex works price in China up from £150 to £190.

That will easily be well over £300 here once shipping, insurance, import duties, importer margin and VAT are added.

Just something to look forward to.

On the pricing and marketing argument, Tony mentioned Panasonic, one of the World's leading electrical and electronic consumer supplies companies.

They in turn are a part of Matsushita with many other famous brands owned or part owned, National, Matsui, Technics, JVC etc.

That whole grouping is owned by Matsui Holdings, and they in turn have as largest shareholder with a dominant say, the Dutch Electronics giant Philips, the latter having larger sales than the GDP of all but 13 of the world's largest countries.

Are we really to believe they don't know how to market an electrical product? It stretches credibility.
.

 

[tgame]

On the pricing and marketing argument, Tony mentioned Panasonic, one of the World's leading electrical and electronic consumer supplies companies.

They in turn are a part of Matsushita with many other famous brands owned or part owned, National, Matsui, Technics, JVC etc.

That whole grouping is owned by Matsui Holdings, and they in turn have as largest shareholder with a dominant say, the Dutch Electronics giant Philips, the latter having larger sales than the GDP of all but 13 of the world's largest countries.

Are we really to believe they don't know how to market an electrical product? It stretches credibility.
.

Not mine. It depends upon your view of accountants versus entrepreneurs perhaps. Look at the latest report on SRI's in medicine for a salutary lesson in the infallibility of management.

The vision of many (most - all) of our great internationals extends little further than a balanced book I suspect. They no doubt have fine accountants. Henry Ford saw an opening and exploited it. This of course is not the job of an accountant.

Research naturally has to be paid for. If the entrepreneurs do their job well can it be paid for by millions paying pence rather than hundreds paying pounds? Payment in this sense is essentially man hours. If men are not employed doing one thing they must, in the modern world, be employed doing another. The art of management is arguably employing them in ways to advance the world.

The oil WILL run out. The globe WILL heat up. Counting coins accurately will not change this.

Tony Game - you are out of your depth. Leave it!!

 

[Ian]

Personally I think a lot of people are unrealistic about the price they should pay for bicycles in general, electric or not.

I agree Martin, people see bikes in Tesco and the like for £70 which sets unrealistic expectations. We all know how long those cheap bikes would last if used for regular commuting in all weathers, and yet people seem to expect to get an electric bike that will do the job for little more.

 

[flecc]

Well Tony, any companies like Panasonic and Philips which grow to such sizes and success must have some idea how to sell.

An illustration. When viewed from space at night, the earth is aglow with street lighting.

There are many companies making and selling street lighting in the World, but I understand 48% of that glow comes from Philip's lighting.

We may hate what they've done, but my, have they done it well.
.

 

[richard]

Tony the oil will run out, thats for sure.
But for the rest of your comments ....pass...????

 

[flecc]

I agree Martin, people see bikes in Tesco and the like for £70 which sets unrealistic expectations. We all know how long those cheap bikes would last if used for regular commuting in all weathers, and yet people seem to expect to get an electric bike that will do the job for little more.

Now here's a thought. Two million bikes are sold in the UK every year, and we know that about 1.9 million are ridden a couple of times and then dumped in the back of the garage.

So why not huge selling equally trashy £150 e-bikes fitted with standard non-rechargeable D cells in the battery case. The vast majority dumping them in the back of the garage would never know ( ), and the tiny number who rode far enough to run out of juice could be upset when offered either new D cells or an upgrade to cheap SLA and a charger at the usual price for those.
.

 

[tgame]

Well Tony, any companies like Panasonic and Philips which grow to such sizes and success must have some idea how to sell.

An illustration. When viewed from space at night, the earth is aglow with street lighting.

There are many companies making and selling street lighting in the World, but I understand 48% of that glow comes from Philip's lighting.

We may hate what they've done, but my, have they done it well.
.

They also made my CoolSkin electric shaver which is a beautifuly researched bit of kit if ever one there was! I'll forgiv'em!

 

[Ian]

and the tiny number who rode far enough to run out of juice could be upset when offered either new D cells or an upgrade to cheap SLA and a charger at the usual price for those.
.

. Offer them an upgrade to Duracells, too expensive to fit as original equipment though, Nearly as much as SLAs.

 

[flecc]

. Offer them an upgrade to Duracells, too expensive to fit as original equipment though, Nearly as much as SLAs.

- - - - - - - - - -

 

[mk1]

An illustration. When viewed from space at night, the earth is aglow with street lighting.


.

Have you seen this with your own eyes flecc, or is it just hearsay?

Martin

 

[flecc]

Yes, with my own eyes Martin.

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It was on BBC2 I think.
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[alsmith]

Yes, with my own eyes Martin.

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It was on BBC2 I think.
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And everything on TV is *always* true. Just as it is in books, newspapers, the internet...... I always remember one newspaper- things like the London Bus pictured on an iceberg in the Suday Sport- it must be true because it's in a newspaper. Or the Lancaster bomber from the Second World War which was spotted on the moon by an orbiting space probe
Sadly we all know differently.
(if anyone is interested or unsure these newspaper stories are now- amazingly- revealed to be untrue!
TheSpoof.com : Uncovered - '80's 'Sunday Sport' Stories Scam! funny satire story)



Anyhow, from the earlier posts it seems you must never buy the cheapest products because of issues and problems that will occur. Basic economics for the majority of people means the least expensive will often be the most favoured purchases. It might not always be the best thing for some people, but the majority will be happy- it fits the most important criterion for the majority.

Most buyers won't get much beyond basic questions and accept whatever Halfords/whoever tell them(and a lot of Halfords sales people are very young with basic knowledge of what Halfords want to sell)

Whatever people think the cheapest is what a majority of people want, so Tesco bikes will always sell- and quickly. It's not a crime, and in general most of the time the retaileer and the customer will be happy.

However there is no one right product or answer for everyone. There is room for low priced products and high priced products- both have markets, and will continue to get customers.

Yes, I see the advantages of higher priced parts- some of which may have a longer life. Yes, I have decided what I'm going to buy- a lot more than I'd initially thought- but without all those questions, and advice received I wouldnt have learned all the things I have, and understood more about the subject. A lot of people don't/won't put the effort in, and have not really thought about what they will really need. For occaisional use/ light use things probably work out ok.

Thanks to everyone for the inputs.