New to forum, advice gratefully received!

[flecc]

The 200 watt is a notional legal figure, being roughly the average power that a motor should put out. It has no relationship to the actual peak power that a motor is capable of, and the Currie hasn't changed, still using the same Unite motor with around 450 watts peak. It's just that webpage that's changed to accord with legal requirements, and that's why they all say 200 or 250 watts.

I'm a little puzzled at you raising this, since I gave you this same answer on the legal notional powers on the 18th in a previous answer here.
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[alsmith]

The 200 watt is a notional legal figure, being roughly the average power that a motor should put out. It has no relationship to the actual peak power that a motor is capable of, and the Currie hasn't changed, still using the same Unite motor with around 450 watts peak. It's just that webpage that's changed to accord with legal requirements, and that's why they all say 200 or 250 watts.

I'm a little puzzled at you raising this, since I gave you this same answer on the legal notional powers on the 18th in a previous answer here.
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Sorry- I've read so much I think some stuff is starting to fall out of the other end. It's quite some subject to try and get a decent baseline knowledge with loads of twists and turns. I'll read back through the threads to see if anything else is out of focus.

I am concerned at the total lack of any reply from them. There seems to quite a few examples where the same basic bike is sold by a few suppliers with minor spec changes and a totally different make and model name. Is this bike available from anyone else? I haven't noticed this one yet. This lack of any help from them before a purchase worries me.

So- on your above premise the Synergi G2 Mistral (Lithium Ion) Model on ebay just gives the average figure, not a peak output. I wonder what that is- he may not know but I bet he will at least reply.

So, I do have an interest in that Currie powered bike- but not so much the supplier. Who else sells it (I think I can live with it even with a different name)?

Thanks again- doing a bit re-reading now, thanks for the paience for someone with a full head!

 

[flecc]

The Trailz AL26 model they show seems to be the American Schwinn Ridge AL26 normal bike model, and although the photo doesn't show it properly, I assume it has the side of wheel Currie motor fitted. I've no idea whether it's a proper drive hub or the spoke attached boss kit though, and i haven't found it elsewhere yet to get more details. However, I can't be sure it's that motor from the angle of that photo, as it could also have the Nano wheel-hub motor in a rear wheel configuration that Schwinn have fitted to some bikes. I'd treat this one with suspicion until you can get clear details and good communications from that supplier.

There's also the Currie Izip Trailz at around £349 to £399 which uses the same side of wheel motor that we were referring to before, and there are many suppliers of that, including Tesco under the name Meercat Metro. These are all SLA (lead acid) battery bikes with steel frames and quite heavy.

The Synergie isn't very powerful, around about middle of the road in that respect, and probably just about 400 watts peak, judging from reported performance. It is a lighter and more modern styled bike though.
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[alsmith]

The Trailz AL26 model they show seems to be the American Schwinn Ridge AL26 normal bike model, and although the photo doesn't show it properly, I assume it has the side of wheel Currie motor fitted. I've no idea whether it's a proper drive hub or the spoke attached boss kit though, and i haven't found it elsewhere yet to get more details. However, I can't be sure it's that motor from the angle of that photo, as it could also have the Nano wheel-hub motor in a rear wheel configuration that Schwinn have fitted to some bikes. I'd treat this one with suspicion until you can get clear details and good communications from that supplier.

There's also the Currie Izip Trailz at around £349 to £399 which uses the same side of wheel motor that we were referring to before, and there are many suppliers of that, including Tesco under the name Meercat Metro. These are all SLA (lead acid) battery bikes with steel frames and quite heavy.

The Synergie isn't very powerful, around about middle of the road in that respect, and probably just about 400 watts peak, judging from reported performance. It is a lighter and more modern styled bike though.
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The tesco bike seems to be the stepthrough without a carrier.
Image(s) for Meerkat Metro Electric 26'' Bike - Tesco.Direct
where I was looking more at the Izip Trailz ST Gents AL 26 which isn't. I like the battery in pannier type arrangement, and that you can fit a second battery as a spare on the other side. It also has the rear rack prefitted giving the opportunity to fit luggage.
Electric Bikes ,Trikes and Bicycles - IZIP ELECTRIC BIKES - Izip Trailz ST Gents AL 26 ( Free Shipping to UK Mainland & Scottish Borders)

I'll have a closer look through the tesco site in case there are others, and try seeing if there are other suppliers of that Izip Trailz ST Gents AL 26 with pannier mounted batteries.

Oh- and still no reply from Powered Bicycles.

 

[alsmith]

A partial apology is due to Powered bicycles- I did get an reply from them from an earlier query- it had gone to my spam trap. So sorry guys.
But I haven't received anything from the latest questions in over a week despite resending them.

 

[flecc]

I did search for other suppliers on the AL26 version using the Schwinn bike, but didn't find any. As it's an American bike with the Currie motor added, it may be that they alone are importing it directly.
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[alsmith]

I did search for other suppliers on the AL26 version using the Schwinn bike, but didn't find any. As it's an American bike with the Currie motor added, it may be that they alone are importing it directly.
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Thanks. I haven't found anything either, but if you can't find anything I think it will be unlikely for me. I wonder if I can find some owners comments, or addresses to get thier experiences- of the bike and of the company too. Out of inyerest do you have the american company web address? Perhaps I can learn some more about it.

 

[flecc]

Here's the Schwinn Bicycles website link below. They probably don't assemble the electric variant of their AL26, but hopefully will be able to give you more information.

If you choose the "Customer Care" tab, there's an "Ask Schwinn" section:

Schwinn Products

The address given there is:

write to us at:
Ask Schwinn
4902 Hammersley Road
Madison, WI 53711
USA
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[alsmith]

They do have a lot of models on the American site, I've looked through a lttle (been a bit busy) and struggled to match the bike. They do have some nice looking powered bikes in the export section- they look good, and lookmore expensive with lithium battery, and they have the most comprehensive specs- oh and are even fitted with mudguards as standard! They have an export range- I think I'll try and see if there is a UK or even European distributor- I bet shipment from America will be expensive. I think I've taken more of an instant like to these- now I need to get practical, but I think I'd be prepared to pay a bit more for one of these. I like the built in rack, the battery size is quite small, rack, looks good, something like the World GSE looks good.

 

[flecc]

Well at least the exchange rate is very favourable, and of late there's never been a better time to buy from the States. Best ask about duties as well as carriage though, HMRC (the Customs) can make things a lot more expensive once they've slapped on a tariff.

Also bear in mind battery availability in future.
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[alsmith]

I'm kind of prepared- it's normally as total of 30-40% if stopped by customs- but it's often the carriage companys' uk agents, especially with DHL- who also add their own handing fee to the whole thing. The figure also includes VAT which would be payable for an import. If stopped. Often American companies don't know about these duties- they just ship and leave it up to you. I've emailed the Dutch and German distributors too- if they sell them then the duties can be discounted, so carriage cost becomes more relevant. I'm hoping that they will have experience of shipping to the UK since there is no UK distributor- surely it must have happened before- even if rarely.
There are other European distributors but are further away, and I haven't had dealings with the ex-communist areas (or know anyone who has) so would prefer on of those two.
Thanks for the link- I'm not sure it will work out- but I do quite like the idea of one of these. This was the first export model I looked at from them- I'll need to look through their other models if things start to look promising to make sure I get the one best suited to me- but this looks promising so I don't know what could be an improvement. Buit the European distributors can tell me what they can supply if not this one.

 

[flecc]

A Yorkshire dealer did bring in a Schwinn electric model a short while ago, but it was one that had been withdrawn by Schwinn as unsatisfactory, confirmed by a review here, so not a source I'd recommend for support.

Good to hear that there are EU agents though.
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[alsmith]

A Yorkshire dealer did bring in a Schwinn electric model a short while ago, but it was one that had been withdrawn by Schwinn as unsatisfactory, confirmed by a review here, so not a source I'd recommend for support.

Good to hear that there are EU agents though.
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Thanks for that info- I'd hate to think I'd bought such a bike from someone who would sell such bikes.

 

[alsmith]

Got one reply- from Denmark. They can't supply the model I wanted saying it's US only (I need to wait for the other replies- their site says export only) but recommended the Campus. Probably my mind but the front downtube (being S shaped) looks a little strange- I wonder why it is shaped like that- any idea? Price is £899 including shipment which is a chunk more money, I'd be fine with that for the original choice though. What makes me stop and think are the batteries- 5Ah as standard, spares are £199 for 5Ah and £389 for 10Ah. They may be quality items but this is 3 times the price of the ebay Synergie Mistral, the bike is about half the price too. I could get 2 bikes for similar money and end up with 2 batteries and a complete set of spares including a second charger.
I still like the World model, so I look forward to seeing ex-USA prices, but duty and VAT may make it rather expensive. Hopefully the German distributor sell it, but I can't see prices being markedly different. Those battery prices seem scary though!
Any thoughts on this? thanks.

 

[flecc]

The best quality Li-ion prices are like that. The BionX 36 volt one is £450, the Panasonic 26 volt one £305. I don't know about those Synergie ones, but doubt they can be the same quality. However, they aren't very high powered bikes, and low power motors don't work batteries as hard.

The S frames are just a style thing in my view, but it's of interest that the "Rolls Royce" of the Panasonic powered bikes, the high end BikeTech model at well over £2000 also has an S shaped main frame tube.

There's always a risk in buying from overseas of course, with regard to spares, batteries and warranty support, so it's has to be accepted that there's the gamble element.

I would think you could buy the US only model you want directly from a dealer there. One used to supplying UK orders is Nycewheels. They don't list Schwinn, but you could ask if they can supply. Here's the home page where if you click the Contact us you'll be offered a blank inquiry email.
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[alsmith]

Neither the American manufacturer (Schwimm) and German distributor have bothered to contact me. That avenue seems less attractive.

Battery prices- for reference an Izip lead battery is £100. The synergie lithium one is £130, another lithium one I checked was £140. To get up to £400 - £450 is an awful jump. I used to be a manager in Quality and am ISO9000 (the new BS5750) lead assessor and did lots of work on quality. Quality is just fitness for purpose so I wonder just where the extra cost goes over the component parts cost. Those expensive batteries are probably made in larger quantities meaning lower manufacturing costs (longer runs reduce effect of startup/run down costs), probably more quality checks (added cost)- but that's one large amount of difference to cover. It would be good see how those manufacturers justify it- or try to. Double would be hard to justify- but triple? Or maybe the cheap ones will break down/ have poor life. It's hard to guess at this, it needs user experience which isn't so easy to get, unfortunately.


I have been considering bike weight a little more- - my legs and arms have been aching more over the last few days.

Have you any experience/comments about some of the other models from poweredbicycles? The potential reduced weight of Lithium battery bikes are a plus for me. The Izip Trailz is 32kg (mudguards to be added). The synergie mistral is 24kg. Other poweredbicycle ones (with lithium batteries, all claimed 200W, except for the Galileo which is 180W- but I wonder whether these 200W have low peak outputs or not- these specs aren't given).
Galileo 23kg,
The City Thunder Ultra lightweight actually says 29 kg with battery, 24kg without- it is 36Volt, but seems little lighter than the lead ones.
Mantra 36V 24kg without battery, 28.5 kg with battery.
The Freespirit has a 3 speed sturmey archer hub, am I right in thinking that these are less efficient than the shimano- apart from less gear ratio choices? A poorer choice?


What advantages does a 36V battery offer over 24V- additional torque/power or greater range from higher pack energy? Are these worthwhile for the additional weight?

(I notice that the Izip trailz is 32kg with the range given as up to 25 miles. The Izip urban cruiser is 29kg but has a reduced range of 15-20 miles in the spec, same diameter wheels, same battery capacity I would have thought the lower weight and road tyres rather than dual use mountain ones).

Thanks again

 

[flecc]

I don't know much at all about these bikes I'm afraid, most never appearing here.

I personally wouldn't buy any of them, and I think it's much safer to buy a known bike in the UK from an established source. This is especially true where lithium batteries are concerned, since their performance has been in question, so local support is very important.

We have quite a lot of experience on the batteries now, and those higher prices are justifiable, since there are considerable differences in the batteries at both ends of the price scale. Only the higher price ones last a long time and can deliver high currents, and the cheap ones only get by usually when they are on low powered bikes.

Take two known 36 volt 10 Ah batteries on powerful bikes, one at £250 often lasting six months to failure, and one at £450 still going strong at well past two years and with very little capacity loss. So which is the expensive one?
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[alsmith]

I take it the 6 months is an example rather than from experience, these bikes haven't been around long enough to know. But I take your point.

I spoke to a lady today who had a Giant Lithium powered bike, a very dissapointed and unhappy lady. When she bought her bike less than a year ago she was told the batteries were about £150 and would last about 3-4 years. She has noticed a marked decrease in the range she can now travel, and has been quoted around £350 for a replacement. Her friend bought a different make at around the same time which is still going strong- unfortunately she didn't know the make ;o( She said she would never buy another Giant, she didn't like the pedal assist mode only, her friends has powered as an option. Shame she didn't know the make, but it shows even the big names aren't always the best (although I think the dealer hasn't looked at her needs properly either- a local dealer who I will now avoid).

I think my head is nearly full to bursting now, I'll let everything swill around waiting for my flat to sell then decide. I'll continue to look for the bikes and talk to the owners for their experiences when I get the chance (I missed the chance to talk to someone who had a rear hub powered bike today, I couldn't stop).

So thanks for all your help in this subject, I will buy a powered bike, I have more defined knowledge and a better understanding of what shoould meet my needs, and I thank you for your guidance (and patience) through this journey. You may not have heard the last of my questions though- there always seems to be more to find out the more you know, but I really appreciate everything you have done for me.


By the way I'd also like to say of all the dealers I have been asking questions the most consistent in giving help, answering *all* questions quickly is the ebay seller scotswhahae2005 (the Synergie bikes), better than the dealers. Nothing has been too much trouble for them, and I would certainly have confidence in their support with any issues when pre-sales have been handled so well. Their feedback is excellent, and where issues have been mentioned they appear to have always sorted them out quickly. The peak power figure for the bike is good, price is good, weight good, and it even has mudguards and a rack- it looks like it may well be the one after the thoughts, facts, figures, dealer help/responses have bounced around my head for a while.

 

[flecc]

I take it the 6 months is an example rather than from experience, these bikes haven't been around long enough to know. But I take your point.

No, it's experience. I'm not sure why you say the bikes haven't been around long enough. Lithium ion batteries have been on a few bikes for years, and a bike that I bought July 2006 had both Li-ion batteries that I got with it dud before Christmas. One replacement on warranty lasted almost six months again, so three in a row is good enough experience. Many of our members have had similar experience, and that's why I advise the best batteries. Cheap and Li-ion don't go together, though as said, they can limp along with low powered motors.

Synergie have received quite a lot of praise for their service, but a few ex owners have referred to the bikes as junk, so opinions vary on them. However, I don't remember anyone ever describing them as powerful, quite the opposite at times, so not too much faith should be put in a paper peak power figure. Two of their models at an e-bike show last year I'd describe as medium power at best, with only the 18 kilo folder being described by some as going really well.
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[jimmyengland1000]

The eBay seller you mentioned seems unaware of, or ignores, the UK's Sale of Goods Act. They offer what is actually an inadequate warranty with unfavourable (and illegal) terms, with the buyer supposedly paying for return of defective items, an inadequate length of warranty and incorrect parts and labour elements. I checked this with Trading Standards. Effectively, as a business trading via eBay, they are bound by the sales laws of the UK, which are designed to protect buyers, but their warranty flouts them.... when I asked them (twice) about this, they simply did not respond to my e-mails. Needless to say, I didn't buy a bike from them.