New Name for Forum
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Being away means you haven't kept up with the law Paul. As part of the 6th April 2015 amendments to the EAPC law, all pedelec weight limits were removed, bringing us more into line with EU practice.
In addition for the first time, four wheeled "quad" pedelecs are now permitted.
These changes have opened up many more light transport possibilities, which I know will interest you.
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Hypothetical question and reverse logic flecc...
Let's say 12.5mph was the legal limit on e-bikes, because the EU suddenly announces it this year.
Now all these kits and bikes are in the marketplace, that are capable of doing 15.5mph still.
Do you think all e-bike owners would abide by the law and ride at 12.5mph?? Of course not. They'd hit that throttle and go to 15.5mph, because what's 3mph??
It's the same in cars.. often you find people who break the speed limit are only slightly over the limit, not massively (most responsible drivers)... they just went 5mph over the limit in a built-up area and got a ticket.
If something is capable of going a lot faster than the limit or law says, there's always going to be either the temptation to go a little faster if you're in a hurry, else it will occur by accident by people not watching the speedometer.
You would think, with cars as advanced as they are now in terms of the technology side, that manufacturers haven't addressed this issue and built in technology which enables a car to be set to abide by preset speed limits and not go over them, no matter how hard you push the pedal down? Or at least give a warning and beep if you go over the limit! I know there's speed camera detectors etc, but really its not rocket science to build-in technology prevent drivers breaking the speed limit which is optional to use.
Yes I have been out of the loop for quite a while. I'm surprised they lifted the weight limit! Astonished in fact. that means we'll soon be seeing those vehicles I've seen in China which sit between an e-bike and a micro-car appearing on our roads eventually I expect! The Chinese have made them restricted to 15.5mph the ones I saw, so they're clearly aimed at the European market... but they were very very heavy, over 200KG so I was puzzled about that!
Quad bikes makes things very interesting!
I've been looking at electric cars that fall into the AM category of late...as my knee problem is so bad now that even using an e-bike is getting difficult. Surprised there doesn't seem to be a lot of competition or choice in the UK market for electric micro cars...there's basically Axiam or Reva, at the budget end of the market... building an electric car is not as difficult anymore with the plastic bodies etc you would think with the UK's long automotive history, a UK competitor would emerge..
If you do a scan of Chinese trade sites, there's 100's of different electric micro car brands being offered and all kinds of weird and wonderful designs! Some are quad cycles that look like cars, some are much more car-like with metal bodies.
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The Government's own Roads Research Laboratory have pointed out the two snags with speed limitation. Firstly it can create bunching, leading to more accidents. Secondly it can make overtaking dangerous if the power cuts at a critical point. Far better to momentarily exceed a speed limit to get past quickly and get out of the danger zone.
There is one form of voluntary restriction that's welcomed by most drivers. That's the lane speed signs guidance on congested motorways like the M25, enabling steady progress to continue instead of continuously being brought to a halt between bursts of speed.
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Many thanks for creating a new sub heading Helen. I just hope that it doesn't get spoilt, by clips of illegal emtb's being ridden stupidly both on raod and off.
Being cheeky, is there also a chance that you could perhaps make this thread a sticky. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/cleaning-and-detailing.24065/
Why do you think the UK retained the 14 minimum age limit, not fully ratifying the EU Directive on e-bikes with our own earlier legislation?
Was that just a safety concern of UK government that below 14 was not safe to handle an e-bike, or was there some other reason behind it to do with differences to the UK and European markets?
Do you think that age is about right? I think the government got it spot on. I think the EU allowing unrestricted any age is a bit dangerous (certainly on UK roads), I'm surprised they didn't set a minimum age as you clearly need to understand Highway Code and cycling proficiency to be on the roads.. however it doesn't automatically follow I suppose that every kid on an e-bike is going to be riding on roads. I remember my days as a lad when I rode my Raleigh Chopper..although I did go on local rodes, I was terrified of going onto a proper road, petrified of even roads that joined estates and had cars going 40mph.
I took my cycling proficiency test aged around 11 or 12 I think...they were doing it inconjunction with our school right after school finished. Still have the old copy of the Highway Code!
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Damn that's amazing, well done Helen! And I see you have already started linking keywords like 1000W to the legal guidance page. Tremendous work and so fast too!
Big Kudos!
At least if there's any bad accidents or legal wrangles now concerning illegal electric motorbikes, it won't be anything to do with your site!
I'm sure it didn't occur to them. The probable reason for that is the age limit is not part of the EAPC law that was being amended, it's a later inclusion in the Road Traffic Act of 1988. The DfT has for some years not had anyone specialising in the pedelec law area, so there's more knowledge in here than they have on the subject!
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Well off-road bikes aren't illegal, but the bikes you're speaking about are illegal off and on-road, so you need a better term so people don't think its ok to use the bikes offroad.
Here's a letter I wrote last year which I hope explains my point of view clearly for you.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/open-letter-uk-ebike-brands-col-williams?trk=mp-reader-card
It was widely published by the cycling press including MBR, Singletrack, Bike Radar, Cycling World, Bike Biz. In fact all the cycling press were very interested in it and keen to promote the legal and therefore sustainable use of eMTBs.
However this website actually refused to feature it - I leave you to think about why all the cycling press supported it, but this website wouldn't.
Admin note: I am awaiting Colin to forward me the email where I was asked to publish this and 'actually refused'.
Update: Pedelecs has no record of being asked to publish the letter referred to above, nor did it therefore have any opportunity to ‘actually refuse to feature it’. Fli Distribution have been given opportunity to substantiate this but have not done so. Fli Distribution/KTM have published their views on this matter comprehensively on the Pedelecs forum. Their statement “However this website actually refused to feature it - I leave you to think about why all the cycling press supported it, but this website wouldn’t.” is inaccurate.
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I really can't understand why this thread was even started. As far as I can make out 1000W e-bikes are not ILLEGAL to either sell or own. What is illegal is the use of overpowered e-bikes on the roads etc (i.e.anywhere the public are allowed). All this hysterical ranting and raving is in my opinion complete carp. I have seen more motorbikes ridden illegally than I have seen e-bikes ridden illegally but the Government, as far as I know, haven't banned all motorbikes yet so can we just stop all the panic and misdirection and return to what this Forum always used to be, a place for people to get help and advice (and often a laugh) before we all decide to leave and look elsewhere for help.
I see your point Eddie but the difference is there is actually nowhere in uk to use a 1000w ebike anywhere...so what's point in owning one...you must break the law and that puts us all at risk.
I,ve been attending private offroad areas for motorbikes over 30 years, never seen an ebike so where are they been used ? The roads..and so called off road , which makes risk even higher.
Changes have now been made to forum to help make this point.
My Kia has both cruise control and speed limiter, but not both at the same time. On cruise control you can accelerate above the cruise speed as fast as you want, then release the throttle and the car will settle back to cruise speed. With the speed limiter set the car will only go as fast as set under normal throttle pressure, if you release the throttle it will slow down below set speed, but if you "kick down" the throttle in emergency then it will over ride and disable the set speed. There is also a cruise/set kill switch right by your thumb on the steering wheel as an additional control to disable either facility
The A4 through Slough used to have (may still have) 40mph synchronized traffic lights. If you were stopped at one, then provided you stayed at 40mph all the other lights would be green by the time you reached them - appeared to me to be magical at the time in the late '60s
You need to make sure that your opinion is not directed at the Cyclotricity 1000W Stealth bike. That one is a street legal bike, with a 250W motor.
'1000W Stealth' is the model name which is unfortunately got picked up in this thread.
A lot of 1000W kits sold on ebay are illegal.
Cyclotricity is a sponsor of this forum.
I've had similar on a previous car too, and enjoyed the cruise control on long trips. The objections are to fixed speed limiting of course, either internal or remote external.
One day I suppose we'll all use driverless "Google" cars, following each other at a steady 20 mph. Thank goodness I won't be around any more then!
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Your completely wrong again. There's plenty of ways to use those kits legally at full power. Here's an example:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66212
He's done another one since then, and I know of several people that used those motors to convert old registered mopeds to electric as well.
You keep making these unfounded sweeping statements based on your own paradigms.
Wow, the forum has calmed down, become slightly new and improved in the process, and it feels like we're a community again
As long as we tow the Flud & Morphix line.
Yes ofcourrse I,m wrong. Apologies.
You can ofcourse build a 1000w bike, register it, mot it. ( probably have to SVA it) Insure it ( the one listed cost £90 to insure) and then do your CBT every 2 years...but like I,ve said before such motorbikes do not belong on a pedelec thread.( or perhaps even a pedelec Forum)
The bikes kook fantastic., couldn't use it around Lady Bower tho.
I find it quite inspiring to have my own forum stalker. Thanks d8.
(Admin note - please do not use 'mods agree' when that may be taken out of context. We have stated our case in a separate post. Thank you.)
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Saying there's nowhere these bikes can be used legally is rubbish..... non registered dirt bikes, quad bikes and pit bikes are used on private land, they're certainly not legal to be used anywhere else. Some land owners have utilised some of their land for these motorcycles & quads to be used, its called 'Pay & Play'. I dont see any reason why more powerful, non road legal Ebikes couldn't use these. In fact the more popular Ebikes become, it will result in more non road legal Ebikes being sold and i can see some land owners providing (for a fee) land & courses for them to be used.
Yes you can use them at Enduro parks, trials events and even race tracks, only point I,m trying to make is that the places folk assume you can use them ( as folk often referred to it as) is " off road". Which is complete rubbish. The offroad bikers had this years ago.( I was one of them)
Essentially there is nowhere to use unreg bikes anywhere " offroad" legally without the land owners permission. Even then there are massive legal repercussions. I used to go on farm land including a wooded area with farmers written permission. We were stopped,kids could get in.
Saying you use bikes offroad is a nightmare, its why mods have changed name.
I still go to various sites around north with either a txt250 or an AJP enduro...Yes, if you rolled up with an ebike they,d let you on, not sure you,d want to and yet to meet, speak to , or know of anyone that does. But if they do, great. Good luck to them..Personally I,d buy a trials bike for those places.
But yes, I totally agree, it would be great to see more places for un reg bikes etc...I,d love it..the ones running at moment for 4x4,s etc are good fun for trials bikes. Ones for ebikes ( brinco ??) would need to be dedicated for those types of bikes. Would need a land owner with good knowledge of what would be needed.
The places offering pay and play are catering for a market 10 times size of powerful ebikes and some of those are struggling. The best I go to is a quarry near Wigan...and its a bit intimidating on a powerful trials bike with 4x4,s flying about... think it might be worse and basically too severe for ebikes, so it would need to be on dedicated days for us...are there the numbers to make it profitable ? Don't think so yet..
Essentially there is nowhere to use unreg bikes anywhere " offroad" legally without the land owners permission. Even then there are massive legal repercussions. I used to go on farm land including a wooded area with farmers written permission. We were stopped,kids could get in.
Saying you use bikes offroad is a nightmare, its why mods have changed name.
I still go to various sites around north with either a txt250 or an AJP enduro...Yes, if you rolled up with an ebike they,d let you on, not sure you,d want to and yet to meet, speak to , or know of anyone that does. But if they do, great. Good luck to them..Personally I,d buy a trials bike for those places.
But yes, I totally agree, it would be great to see more places for un reg bikes etc...I,d love it..the ones running at moment for 4x4,s etc are good fun for trials bikes. Ones for ebikes ( brinco ??) would need to be dedicated for those types of bikes. Would need a land owner with good knowledge of what would be needed.
The places offering pay and play are catering for a market 10 times size of powerful ebikes and some of those are struggling. The best I go to is a quarry near Wigan...and its a bit intimidating on a powerful trials bike with 4x4,s flying about... think it might be worse and basically too severe for ebikes, so it would need to be on dedicated days for us...are there the numbers to make it profitable ? Don't think so yet..
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