New London Low Emission Zone

Cleaner air on the way for London cyclists and pedestrians. The existing Congestion Charge zone already has an extra £12.50 per day from next April for polluting older vehicles, on top of the £11.50 daily congestion charge.

 

Now the Ultra Low Pollution Zone is to be extended out to the North and South Circular roads, a huge area of Inner London, the infrastructure planned to be in place for 2021. Vehicles intended to be due for a charge centred on £12.50 per day will be petrol cars over 15 years old, motorcycles over 14 years old and diesels over 6 years old. That last one will hit hard for many and will include many commercials.

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Cleaner air on the way for London cyclists and pedestrians. The existing Congestion Charge zone already has an extra £12.50 per day from next April for polluting older vehicles, on top of the £11.50 daily congestion charge.

 

Now the Ultra Low Pollution Zone is to be extended out to the North and South Circular roads, a huge area of Inner London, the infrastructure planned to be in place for 2021. Vehicles intended to be due for a charge centred on £12.50 per day will be petrol cars over 15 years old, motorcycles over 14 years old and diesels over 6 years old. That last one will hit hard for many and will include many commercials.

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Dirty polluting cars going cheap in London to use elsewhere in country???

I have nothing against keeping citys clean , what i do have a problem with is all the delivery vehicles being stung because of it

Loads of people for instance moan about lorrys on the road while there sat at the kitchen table drinking there coffee and munching on breakfast not thinking how there coffee and breakfast got there

So its good and bad at the same time because delivery and haulage firms will just pass the cost on to consumers effectively .

So its good and bad at the same time because delivery and haulage firms will just pass the cost on to consumers effectively .

 

Broadly I agree, but it is doing some good. A number of companies delivering in London now have electric vans and one even has some electric trucks. Our London taxis will shortly only be available as hybrids capable of at least 70 miles on electric only and only allowed to use electric drive in the most polluted areas.

 

It's the future for city centres, we can't go on poisoning the most crowded areas with a clearly measurable premature loss of lives. Pedestrians and cyclists will gain the most.

 

While I take Zlatan's point about the dirty vehicles being sold elsewhere, in the countryside they won't be doing anything like the harm, sparsely distributed as they'll be in huge volumes of countryside air constantly cleansed by trees and other plants.

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Broadly I agree, but it is doing some good. A number of companies delivering in London now have electric vans and one even has some electric trucks. Our London taxis will shortly only be available as hybrids capable of at least 70 miles on electric only and only allowed to use electric drive in the most polluted areas.

 

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Taxis and local deliveries i get 100%

As per my previous post how do they go about the long distant haulage companys travelling from out of the city electric 44ton trucks cabable of 500 miles plus on a fill are not quite there yet .

One day maybe

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tesla-semi-lorry-have-range-600-miles-says-musk

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tesla-semi-lorry-have-range-600-miles-says-musk

Nice but ....

I cant see the likes of stobart just to name one well known company swapping out his 2200 fleet of units just yet thou

 

Electric vehicles are clean for citys but as a concept there pretty flawed as an environmentally friendly vehicle , battery life and the electricity for charging them is still a massive issue .

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tesla-semi-lorry-have-range-600-miles-says-musk

 

Afraid I really can't see 0 to 60 in 20 seconds being such a wonderful idea for a lorry with a 36 tonne load. (Especially if it then speeds up as it approaches stationary vehicles...)

 

As I understand, such high acceleration will inevitably use more energy than more modest rates, will impose a larger load on the batteries, reduce range, etc. To what end?

the uk does not have enough power for cars atm let alone lorry's as well.

Taxis and local deliveries i get 100%

As per my previous post how do they go about the long distant haulage companys

 

There's no intention of these going electric, they're handled in different ways. Firstly they aren't much of a pollution problem in the open countryside. Secondly they aren't so much when they enter cities, since for each 44 tonne truck there's a load of cars and vans. Cleaning up the cars and vans is enough, the much fewer large trucks can stay since the newer ones are much cleaner anyway. Third, in some of our inner areas they have to by law deliver in the middle of the night when the roads are quieter so pollution not a problem.

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Theres still a lot of hgv,s going into cities thou , i know because i drive them

External distribution works for transfer into cities but its still not enough for lots of smaller companies, they still need 44t lorries in which still get charged , we cant always deliver at night

Theres still a lot of hgv,s going into cities thou , i know because i drive them

External distribution works for transfer into cities but its still not enough for lots of smaller companies, they still need 44t lorries in which still get charged , we cant always deliver at night

 

Yes, but only a fraction of 44t trucks to the number of cars and vans, so the HGV pollution isn't a problem. We don't need to get rid of all exhaust pollution, just reduce it to acceptable levels that don't harm people. Cleaning up cars and vans plus banning the oldest high emission trucks is enough.

 

As for "can't always deliver at night", there's no can't about it when it's the law for a zone. The job just goes to those who can. We actually have one residential zone with a number of streets in one borough where deliveries can only be made by electric vehicles. Of course they don't pay congestion and emission zone charges.

 

Times are a changing and everyone is going to have to adapt.

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Both sides will have to adapt

Theres companies also that wont take deliveries at night not just companies the wont deliver

I do see both sides and do agree change is coming its just not as clear cut as outsiders looking in think .

Yes, but only a fraction of 44t trucks to the number of cars and vans, so the HGV pollution isn't a problem.

 

Sorry, but HGV pollution is a problem. I certainly accept that for quite a number of years now, modern HGVs have been fitted with sophisticated equipment for cleaning up. We'd probably find that if measured on a per tonne basis (whether per tonne of vehicle and load, or just per tonne of load actually carried), they are cleaner than most other diesel vehicles. Trouble is, the number of tonnes moved is gigantic.

 

There are also options such as LPG conversions - I believe several companies such as TNT in the UK have dallied with them.

 

In the countryside, we also have the problem of agricultural vehicles. Some are absolutely disgusting - others seem to be right up at the forefront of cleanliness.

All hgv had to go euro 6 several years ago in London it has not cut the number of tipper trucks or other construction vehicles on the A13 [ the shortest route out to the tip the spoil into a landfill ] they are just newer . The new 24 hour 365 plan with no discounts will not cut there numbers. The amount of cars that travel in to London has dropped mainly due to the already high parking costs you pay a surcharge to park a diesel car in some London boroughs they also age. restrict the black cabs

I have nothing against keeping citys clean , what i do have a problem with is all the delivery vehicles being stung because of it

Loads of people for instance moan about lorrys on the road while there sat at the kitchen table drinking there coffee and munching on breakfast not thinking how there coffee and breakfast got there

So its good and bad at the same time because delivery and haulage firms will just pass the cost on to consumers effectively .

Perhaps these extra costs should only apply in London not the whole UK

Reminiscent of the 1930s when the steam lorries had to go because of their pollution, fire risks etc.

Sorry, but HGV pollution is a problem.

 

Not so, I'm speaking of a relative problem. Of course ideally we'd have zero pollution but we have to be practical. At present there are a number of city zones that are breaking pollution limits and they can easily be brought within the limits by controlling the pollution from all the many more smaller vehicles that are on the roads.

 

These 2016 UK stats show the picture clearly:

 

Cars 79% of all road traffic covering 310 billion miles.

 

Vans 14% of all road traffic covering 45 billion miles.

 

HGVs 5% of all road traffic covering 16 billion miles.

 

Buses 1% of all road traffic covering 2.8 billion miles.

 

And then there's the numbers of registered vehicles from a recent year:

 

Cars 25.8 million, HGVs over 7.5 tonne 293 thousands. Even if foreign trucks quadrupled that, and I very much doubt they do, it would still only be just over 1 million trucks.

 

Tackling the pollution of vehicles other than HGVs can easily solve the problem, while keeping some control on HGVs of course.

 

Link to stats

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Edited June 9, 20187 yr by flecc

The funny thing about all of this is I sat and had lunch on the bank of Thames and watched the old fashioned way to move goods and rubbish one little tug boat and three super sized barges [a quick google showed each barge held 40 lorry loads } :)and in the back ground was one of largest container ships in the world at DP London gateway it holds 18 thousand + 20 ft containers most of which move by road on the biggest car park the m25

The funny thing about all of this is I sat and had lunch on the bank of Thames and watched the old fashioned way to move goods and rubbish one little tug boat and three super sized barges [a quick google showed each barge held 40 lorry loads } :)and in the back ground was one of largest container ships in the world at DP London gateway it holds 18 thousand + 20 ft containers most of which move by road on the biggest car park the m25

 

But the barges can't go to where the goods are needed, so they must still end up on trucks. The same goes for the railways. Today's container transport is very efficient, in the final stage using a tiny fraction of the vehicles on our roads to get goods right to where they are needed, sometimes right to the user interface.

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I agree the barge will not sort out the problems but between dp word and tilbury docks and the planned tilbury 2 port how many thousand lorry journeys per day [one in one out] . It was just ironic to see the old and the new in one place and how few staff work in dp world London everything is gps

 

The railway runs into both ports but is under utilised

 

I cannot see what the charge will achieve,[ when the fist c charge started vech numbers went down but within two years went way up] the vehicles still need to deliver the goods and service staff need to visit multiple sites [i tried the steps and tools on the tube once :eek:I am now retired ] to travel in to the city by van and park for 8 hours costs the only thing it will do is raise money [tax] wait and see it come to a every city near you soon .

 

Electric vans are still limited on range and if we all plugged in to the national grid it cannot cope, the cost of new power cables to each street yet alone the disruption for the infrastructure work. I have noticed the met police trail of electric bmw and 11 Toyota hydrogen cars under the mayors zero emission plan the rumour is they have to go mile's out of london to fill up

I agree the barge will not sort out the problems but between dp word and tilbury docks and the planned tilbury 2 port how many thousand lorry journeys per day [one in one out] . It was just ironic to see the old and the new in one place and how few staff work in dp world London everything is gps

 

The railway runs into both ports but is under utilised

 

I cannot see what the charge will achieve,[ when the fist c charge started vech numbers went down but within two years went way up] the vehicles still need to deliver the goods and service staff need to visit multiple sites [i tried the steps and tools on the tube once :eek:I am now retired ] to travel in to the city by van and park for 8 hours costs the only thing it will do is raise money [tax] wait and see it come to a every city near you soon .

 

Electric vans are still limited on range and if we all plugged in to the national grid it cannot cope, the cost of new power cables to each street yet alone the disruption for the infrastructure work. I have noticed the met police trail of electric bmw and 11 Toyota hydrogen cars under the mayors zero emission plan the rumour is they have to go mile's out of london to fill up

 

There's a need to keep a sense of perspective and not exaggerate the problems by clutching at every possible but highly unlikely snag. Dealing with the things you raise in order:

 

So what if the container terminal has few staff, the barges containing many lorry loads are pulled by one tugboat man.

 

The railway is under utilised because it doesn't go to where the goods are needed, so not worth using for many trips.

 

Vehicle numbers went up years after the congestion charge was introduced because overall vehicle numbers went up. Without the charge congestion would have been very much worse.

 

A pollution charge will be effective because it works differently. It's costs make it cheaper to buy a less or non polluting vehicle. For someone who enters the congestion charge zone weekdays now, the new 2018 Nissan Leaf is a free car if they keep it for the 8 year battery warranty life. After deducting holidays, the 220 annual entries at £11.50 a day for eight years adds up to £20,240. Add the government £4500 grant to buy a fully electric car and the total is £24,740. That buys the top of the range model after discounts, and there's still the huge savings of using electricity instead of very expensive petrol or diesel, those adding up to thousands of pounds. So no problems, they can have the electric car completely free and still keep their other one if they sometimes do very long trips over 150 miles.

 

Yes the electricity grids couldn't cope if we all switched to electric, but that isn't happening is it? We only need to switch a fair proportion of the cars and vans in pollution affected cities. That will happen gradually as our generating capacity rises with planned and currently being built power supply additions.

 

The Mayor's trial of a tiny number of cars just isn't relevant in the greater scheme of things. And London already has hydrogen filling facilities, its small fleet of Mercedes hydrogen powered buses fill up there.

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Yes the electricity grids couldn't cope if we all switched to electric, but that isn't happening is it?

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Some countries have too much electricity so they sell it to other countries. You are paying the price of being an island... What we need here then are removable batteries which could be shipped over the channel to be recharged

 

There was a documentary on your future nuclear power station the other day, Executive summary: EDF have been very naughty...

EDF have been very naughty...

 

Skilfully naughty though!

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Cars 79% of all road traffic covering 310 billion miles.

 

HGVs 5% of all road traffic covering 16 billion miles.

 

Yes - cars are dominant. But HGVs produce about 16% of CO2 (against 63% combined for petrol plus diesel cars). So over three times the CO2 that mileage alone would suggest.