My name is ..... And I'm new here.....

[soundwave]

Photon | cycmotor

The Photon is designed with subtlety to ensure low noise and smooth performance in a compact body. Refined for adventure, you can experience torque sensing like never before.

www.cycmotor.com

would that fit better ? and fook shitmano but if you could get hold of one with a dead motor mounts could be made to fit a bosch motor ect

 

[FastFreddy2]

TrikExplor F420E Electric Recumbent Quad bike 500W 48V

Fat Tyre Recumbent Quad F420E The F420E is built primarily to be easy to ride for some people who want more stability. It offers a better view, good ground clearance and additional cargo capacity, which makes it the perfect utility vehicle for adventure off-road, more extreme sport. All Terrains...

ultimateebike.com

UltimateEbike Ltd

Unit A, 82 James Carter Road, Mildenhall, Suffolk, IP28 7DE, United Kingdom

Telephone: 03333582770
Mobile: 07391152448
WhatsApp: +447391152448
Email: Enquiries@ultimateebike.com

£7000 and back ordered .....

There were other recumbents in the £3100-£3900 range that looked more suitable, but the seat heights..... Probably too low. And back ordered.

 

[guerney]

Photon | cycmotor

The Photon is designed with subtlety to ensure low noise and smooth performance in a compact body. Refined for adventure, you can experience torque sensing like never before.

www.cycmotor.com

would that fit better ? and fook shitmano but if you could get hold of one with a dead motor mounts could be made to fit a bosch motor ect

I posted that pic because of it's good view of the steering arm - agree that Shimano motors are to be avoided, judging by recent posts.

 

[guerney]

£7000 and back ordered .....

There were other recumbents in the £3100-£3900 range that looked more suitable, but the seat heights..... Probably too low. And back ordered.

Yes, I spotted that they were backordered, but paying a UK company would be safer than throwing that much money at AliExpress, presumably. And £7k

 

[flecc]

This isn't the sort of remark that is suggesting the quest is making progress.

The configuration worked for the rider, who themselves said the motor helped their fairly able riding ability. But I don't remember them writing they only rode in Norfolk? Either way, a motor that can use more power is not off the cards, it's where the purchasing choice gets pitched, meaning 350w, 500w ..... 36v or more?

The Wiesmann 250w motor is sold in a place where the land in the UK is not flat. No reviews that suggest it isn't up to the job? I am becoming resigned to having to acquire a 250w motor under a 'suck it and see' initiative, with the prospect of a 350w replacement. I'm not even sure higher consumption 20" wheels are readily available. Maybe I should look? What I don't really want to waste money on, is the battery pack. That really should be a one-off purchase.

OK, you want a solution.

With my e-bike and me weighing only 5 kilos more than your trike and rider, I've had years of experience of climbing 20 and 25% with a 20" wheeled 250 watt rear hub motor which could sink 1000 watts, giving almost 600 watts of net power. I still had to work since the motor was geared for 15.5 mph and I didn't have very low gearing for pedalling.

The Bafang BPM front wheel motor is one the most powerful 250 watt rated. Built into a 20" rim the maximum speed will be just over 11 mph, so with level 5 maximum power selected it will be a very capable steep hill climber, capable of 600 watts net power at a slower advantageous climbing speed.

To look at its details, Woosh sell a kit including it, though in the usual 26" wheel, but you can have the motor built into a 20" rim by a competent cycle mechanic. You can look at all the details on this link.

I'm assuming the one very steep hill you mention is tarmac, since there's no way the Kettweisel front wheel with its lack of up front weight can propel the load up 25% on a loose surface.
.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Photon | cycmotor

The Photon is designed with subtlety to ensure low noise and smooth performance in a compact body. Refined for adventure, you can experience torque sensing like never before.

www.cycmotor.com

would that fit better ? and fook shitmano but if you could get hold of one with a dead motor mounts could be made to fit a bosch motor ect

I think this picture might confirm whether or not ANY mid-drive is a prospect for this particular trike. You can see how the steering arm almost skims the underneath of the BB.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Having now seen that image of the STEPS steering arrangement, I am wondering how much clearance that Hase factory steering arm provides underneath the boom. I'm pretty sure that fixture to the front forks, is not like that on the standard one. Plainly I ought to provide some more detailed pictures. I'm over at my friends tomorrow, I'll try to take some picture of the Kettwiesel while I'm there.

 

[soundwave]

the motor would be on top like that pic but if that bar clears the bottom bracket those spacers can be made the same size as the bb as that motor clamps around it and tightened with the lock ring on the right in that pic.

im sure you can mod that steering arm but it does not look very strong at all but if you turned that thing up to max power and no speed limit id have a go on it

 

[FastFreddy2]

OK, you want a solution.

With my e-bike and me weighing only 5 kilos more than your trike and rider, I've had years of experience of climbing 20 and 25% with a 20" wheeled 250 watt rear hub motor which could sink 1000 watts, giving almost 600 watts of net power. I still had to work since the motor was geared for 15.5 mph and I didn't have very low gearing for pedalling.

The Bafang BPM front wheel motor is one the most powerful 250 watt rated. Built into a 20" rim the maximum speed will be just over 11 mph, so with level 5 maximum power selected it will be a very capable steep hill climber, capable of 600 watts net power at a slower advantageous climbing speed.

To look at its details, Woosh sell a kit including it, though in the usual 26" wheel, but you can have the motor built into a 20" rim by a competent cycle mechanic. You can look at all the details on this link.

Okay. I will get in touch with Mr Woosh over the weekend. Thank you for the suggestion and the link.

I'm assuming the one very steep hill you mention is tarmac, since there's no way the Kettweisel front wheel with its lack of up front weight can propel the load up 25% on a loose surface.
.

You assume correctly. I've just measured the length of the tarmaced slope (actually a single lane rat run) at 375 metres. I've no way to check the elevation, short of using a helium balloon on a length of string and a laser pointer sat on a spirit level. I have the string and a spirit level ....

I might take my bike over to the road tomorrow, and see how I do.

 

[matthewslack]

Okay. I will get in touch with Mr Woosh over the weekend. Thank you for the suggestion and the link.



You assume correctly. I've just measured the length of the tarmaced slope (actually a single lane rat run) at 375 metres. I've no way to check the elevation, short of using a helium balloon on a length of string and a laser pointer sat on a spirit level. I have the string and a spirit level ....

I might take my bike over to the road tomorrow, and see how I do.

1:25,000 OS map for the elevation. 375 metres horizontally means 75m vertical change at 20% and 90m at 25%, so the road will cross between 7 and 9 contour lines, which are at 10m intervals.

Used to be able to see this map online on a PC (no maps app to get in the way, unlike a phone or tablet) using Bing maps, not sure if still the case. Otherwise, local shop may have local sheet for a sneak peek.

You might just get away with the front hub on tarmac....waiting for the next episode!

 

[Woosh]

Actually, I concur with Flecc's solution. It's the simplest to address both required torque and ease of installation. It's also the cheapest solution considering alternatives. I can build the bpm into a 20in rim for the OP.

 

[guerney]

I think (not sure) that Google Map's "Measure distance" function on PC measures map distance, and route distance measures road distance.

 

[flecc]

I've no way to check the elevation, short of using a helium balloon on a length of string and a laser pointer sat on a spirit level. I have the string and a spirit level ....

You need a spirit level, you may have one already in a set square or separately, but if not, buy a cheap one from a DIY or tool shop. If you haven't got one, also get an extending rule with centimetres on it. Then get a strip of straight metal or wood and cut it to exactly 50 centimetres long. Tape an expanding rule on one end so that the tape extends down against the end of the 50 cm strip. Tape the spirit level next to it on the top surface of your straight strip and secure it firmly with tape or rubber bands.

That's your measuring apparatus complete. If the hill you want to measure isn't at home, you can tie that strip to your crossbar to ride to your destination.

Now on a representative sloping part of the hill, rest one end of your strip on the road surface with the spirit level above and the bubble kept centralised. With the other hand, extend the rule extended vertically down to the road directly below the other end of the strip and note the number of half centimetres measured between where it meets the underside of the strip right at the end and the road surface. Thats the percentage measure of your hill, it's as easy as that, just the distance from the road surface vertically to the 50 cm point on the underside of your strip. If it's 5.5 cm, there's 11 half centimetres so it's an 11% hill. Just make sure the bubble is central as you read the measurement.



I understand that there is disagreement in the mapmaking and surveying world, surveying I believe using the hypotenuse as the linear element for calculation.

To give some idea of the size of the difference using "stick and rule", a 12% will actually be an 11.91457%, a 7% will actually be 6.98291%, so you can see why I don't think the difference is worth bothering with. Even a 20% will only vary slightly, the correct gradient being 19.611688%.
.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Actually, I concur with Flecc's solution. It's the simplest to address both required torque and ease of installation. It's also the cheapest solution considering alternatives. I can build the bpm into a 20in rim for the OP.

I have sent an email regarding this.

 

[FastFreddy2]

You need a spirit level, you may have one already in a set square or separately, but if not, buy a cheap one from a DIY or tool shop. If you haven't got one, also get an extending rule with centimetres on it. Then get a strip of straight metal or wood and cut it to exactly 50 centimetres long. Tape an expanding rule on one end so that the tape extends down against the end of the 50 cm strip. Tape the spirit level next to it on the top surface of your straight strip and secure it firmly with tape or rubber bands.

That's your measuring apparatus complete. If the hill you want to measure isn't at home, you can tie that strip to your crossbar to ride to your destination.

Now on a representative sloping part of the hill, rest one end of your strip on the road surface with the spirit level above and the bubble kept centralised. With the other hand, extend the rule extended vertically down to the road directly below the other end of the strip and note the number of half centimetres measured between where it meets the underside of the strip right at the end and the road surface. Thats the percentage measure of your hill, it's as easy as that, just the distance from the road surface vertically to the 50 cm point on the underside of your strip. If it's 5.5 cm, there's 11 half centimetres so it's an 11% hill. Just make sure the bubble is central as you read the measurement.

View attachment 51225

I understand that there is disagreement in the mapmaking and surveying world, surveying I believe using the hypotenuse as the linear element for calculation.

To give some idea of the size of the difference using "stick and rule", a 12% will actually be an 11.91457%, a 7% will actually be 6.98291%, so you can see why I don't think the difference is worth bothering with. Even a 20% will only vary slightly, the correct gradient being 19.611688%.
.

"Tool" made with Stabila 80cm level. Results to follow some time this evening. I'm supposed to start work today (part time job) at 12. I'm going to be an hour late late at the very least, but these solutions are making it worthwhile.

I'm very grateful for the help I'm getting here.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Homework........





The slope was measured today, and is not as bad as I thought statistically, but was really unpleasant to peddle up. The rise was a 8% slope at it's best, typically 12-14% and in the worst places 16-18%. Considerably better than the 20/25% I had mentioned before.

I will not be trying that again. It took me 5 minutes to climb the hill, and most of it at a walking (slow walking) pace. I videoed the ride and when YT has done it's bit, I will send a link to all those by PM who have responded so far. The video is not for public consumption.

You can hear my heavy breathing, you won't get to experience what felt like my knees trying to burst.

The trike owner, having seen my condition immediately after the ride, confirmed they will never-ever try that without e-assistance. I don't blame them.

 

[soundwave]

well i had a look on my m8s bafang motor tonight forgot pics lol but like the cyc motor if you run it upside down and it will fit the bb it should work and clear that steering arm with the lock ring he had as the same size as the bb near enough.

bbs hd has a 30amp controller and with that much power no hills will be any problem but you will need to set it up because with no speed limit can hit 40mph+ but it destroys the batts range but at 15mph and 20 amps it will last for years if you get decent cells.

or get the cheaper 750w one with a 20a controller i think should be more than enough with a 20 ah batt.

 

[soundwave]

why not try a mid drive fully sus mobility scooter

 

[FastFreddy2]

While at it, I also photographed just how far and how close the steering arm is to the bottom bracket. I also found my 'idea' of cutting the boom and rotating the BB some 180' can't work, because there is a guidance channel along the underside of the boom to ensure the fork steerer stays vertical.




This image shows just how close the steering arm is to the crank and BB, in the straight ahead position.





(The thumb is in the 'guidance channel'.)

With hard-left-lock, the steering arm goes under the boom, and crosses the BB with not a great deal of space between. There is no way, a mid-drive can be fitted without significantly altering the location of the steering arm and the cam on the fork that it pushes/pulls on.

Actually, that isn't completely true. If the front chainwheel has a second inner chain ring, a simple motor with a toothed chainwheel drive sprocket could be mounted towards the front of the boom, and drive the front chainwheel indirectly. That's not a realistic solution though.... Hub motor is.

 

[FastFreddy2]

well i had a look on my m8s bafang motor tonight forgot pics lol but like the cyc motor if you run it upside down and it will fit the bb it should work and clear that steering arm with the lock ring he had as the same size as the bb near enough.

Not enough room above, that's why I had suggested cutting the boom and welding the BB upside down. Today I was reminded there's a channel in the underside of the boom to keep it aligned, so no 'cut and shut' is possible.

As to the offroad mobility scooter, I had suggested a good number of (safer) choices, but the vehicle has to be a recumbent.