Mechanical doping ???

Mar 9, 2016
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A new term has entered cycling, first time I,ve heard it anyway...
Apparently a Belgian rider ( Dreitsche) has been accused of " mechanical doping". She had a hidden motor on her bike !!! Presumably a battery as well. She hasn't denied charge ( joke there somewhere) and is not fighting against case. !!!


A pile of evidence no doubt.
 
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soundwave

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Gubbins

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A new term has entered cycling, first time I,ve heard it anyway...
Apparently a Dutch rider ( Dreitsche) has been accused of " mechanical doping". She had a hidden motor on her bike !!! Presumably a battery as well. She hasn't denied charge ( joke there somewhere) and is not fighting against case. !!!


A pile of evidence no doubt.
Mechanical Doping.. An idiot on a bike?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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She did have a powered bike at the venue but wasn't using it in the event. The fact that she had that bike there makes it impossible for her to defend herself, it was foolish of course.

However, I'm sure the accusation is nonsense and it's the second time it's been made against a rider. The facts are these:

These motors are noisy enough to instantly reveal themselves if used.

The battery in the seat tube is too tiny to make any real contribution to what a powerful rider can do, and the circa 100 watts of maximum power would be largely offset by the added weight.

They are too easy to detect, all one has to do is use the seat stem quick release to expose the frame's seat tube battery inside. In addition, the cut-off short saddle stem to make space for motor and battery immediately gives the game away.

Another way to detect is just to turn the rear wheel backwards, that immediately means turning the motor in reverse, which with this bevel drive system is very difficult due to the amount of drag, That drag immediately shows it's not a normal bike transmission, so scrutineering isn't a problem.

It was inevitable that the invention of such a motor system would inspire conspiracy theorists to grab what looked like an opportunity. If they had the faintest idea of the facts they might not come out with such nonsense.
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soundwave

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also if the batt cant do the hole race it makes you slower as carrying that extra weight to the end prob make you last anyway.
 
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trex

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i think if one suspects that the bike is motorized then it should be easy to find the tell tale signs like drag, weight, noise and wires but it should be possible to hide the motor in the downtube and the battery in the chain stays and the on/off button somewhere on or inside the handlebars or use a car remote.
 

flecc

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it should be possible to hide the motor in the downtube and the battery in the chain stays and the on/off button somewhere on or inside the handlebars or use a car remote.
But the necessity for access to fit a motor in the downtube and to charge.replace a battery is also a giveaway if such a method is used. In addition chainstay batteries would be even more tiny and limiting. It simply isn't feasible to get any gain by such methods, and detection is always too easy by just turning the rear wheel backwards, encountering the considerable drag of the geared up motor through the right angle drive.
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trex

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In addition chainstay batteries would be even more tiny and limiting. It simply isn't feasible to get any gain by such methods, and detection is always too easy by just turning the rear wheel backwards, encountering the considerable drag of the geared up motor through the right angle drive.
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As I am looking into building a lighter, stealthier 'Gtech', I am thinking of building the battery pack either into a lockable saddle or handlebars. Only 20 x 18650 cells are needed for 7AH. My guess for the Vivax, they'd use only 7 cells.
 
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anotherkiwi

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allez1.jpg

10 x 3500 mAh + BMS in each bottle wired in parallel for 36 V 7 Ah? Room enough for a bottle battery controller in one of the bottles too I think.

Stealth and ease of access.
 

RobF

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flecc

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View attachment 13448

10 x 3500 mAh + BMS in each bottle wired in parallel for 36 V 7 Ah? Room enough for a bottle battery controller in one of the bottles too I think.

Stealth and ease of access.
You still have to get the crank motor in. If it's in the seat tube it's instantly detectable, and in the down tube it will need a huge access hole in the BB or headstock to insert it.

Then there's it's locking pin or bolt to stop motor rotation, the wiring from the bottles and for on/off.

And finally still that instantly detectable drag at the rear wheel in reverse, plus the noise. And these are why all this speculation is a waste of time, that drag and some noise is unavoidable. This cheat hasn't happened and won't either.
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trex

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the vivax demo bike has the motor in the seat tube and battery in a saddle bag, I suppose that's the easiest way to build the bike.

 

RobF

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You still have to get the crank motor in. If it's in the seat tube it's instantly detectable, and in the down tube it will need a huge access hole in the BB or headstock to insert it.

Then there's it's locking pin or bolt to stop motor rotation, the wiring from the bottles and for on/off.

And finally still that instantly detectable drag at the rear wheel in reverse, plus the noise. And these are why all this speculation is a waste of time, that drag and some noise is unavoidable. This cheat hasn't happened and won't either.
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The drag and noise will always be present, but I suppose you could press fit and/or glue the motor in the tube to avoid the need for a visible locking pin.

On/off could be achieved with remote car locking technology.

Stuffing the batteries in the tubes could hide them and the wiring, and a charging port could be hidden behind a bar end.

As I understand it, the weight can be sorted by using an illegally light bike which, with motor and battery added, makes the total weight about right.
 

flecc

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Stuffing the batteries in the tubes could hide them and the wiring, and a charging port could be hidden behind a bar end.
This is already done with the battery and motor in the seat tube, but removing the cut short QD seat stem instantly exposes that. Having batteries in the cross bar means a hatch in the headstock to access them. Having them in the down tube means a headstock or BB hatch.

All of these are instantly detectable, and since instantly detectable drag is always present, no matter what motor position, it's just not worth trying. It would be like illegally doping and having the drugs label stuck on the crossbar.

Unfortunately, due to ignorance of the motor system implications, we're going to get the conspiracy theorists constantly raising this silly accusation now they mistakenly think it's possible. And of coiurse equally ignorant journalists will seize upon each event to publicise the rumour.
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Gubbins

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Thinking away from e-bike technology....
In model car and aeroplanes they use really small but powerful electric motors, and with a system similar to starter motors where the gear is thrown into mesh when activated, a boost on hills without the constant drag could be possible...