Looking to buy Specialised Turbo. Can i have it re flashed?

[JohnCade]

They didn't ask the question whether it was legal or not, just that the dealer was reluctant to flash it to the alternative mode. I'm sure the dealer told them the reasons why they wouldn't do this, so the OP probably knows the legalities already.

No, they haven't come back, because instead of a straightforward answer, all they are getting are answers that are unrelated to the questions they've asked.
All I can see are questions about flashing the bike and whether any of the forum members can help in doing so.

Not knickers in a twist, more like mildly peeved. I'm sure the reason why we had the extra topic heading of 'UK off-road, S-Pedelecs and overseas' added, was so that we could chat freely about bikes that are obviously not legal, without getting the riot act read to us in nearly every thread.

Yep, of course the dealer told him the reason he wouldn’t do it and that’s why he offered a so called waver about using it on private land. Which the dealer would know was daft. So it does come down to legalities. Besides the OP’s fall back is to buy one from Germany or Austria as far as I can make out. So apart from the private land stuff he knew the score on the rest.

So to repeat, the clarification in the following post by KTM was to the OPs misunderstanding of private land and was not aimed as far as I can see at people who know the law but choose to ignore it. So there really is no reason for you or anyone else to be peeved every time a newbie has to be told that his understanding of off road is nonsense.

 

[RobF]

John,

The waiver, while a bit over dramatic, was not daft.

As I said, possession/sale of the modded bike is not illegal.

The waiver, presumably saying the buyer would not use the bike illegally, does offer the dealer extra protection.

Not that the dealer needs it.

 

[Fordulike]

Maybe the OP should pose their question again, but this time omitting the info about contacting their dealer. Then they might get the answer they are looking for and this thread would save some server space.

To the OP. I have spent some time this evening searching the web for the answer you are looking for, but I'm sorry to say that I didn't come up with anything useful.

You might want to pop over to Endless Sphere and pose your question there, as they are less likely to jump onto you like a pack of bloodthirsty hounds about legalities.

 

[Kudoscycles]

John,

The waiver, while a bit over dramatic, was not daft.

As I said, possession/sale of the modded bike is not illegal.

The waiver, presumably saying the buyer would not use the bike illegally, does offer the dealer extra protection.

Not that the dealer needs it.

Rob....I got my legal guys to look at the possibility of getting the customer to sign a waiver if we sold illegal S-class bikes.
The problem is testing,if we allow a customer to test such a bike any waiver is redundant,the action of allowing a customer to test such a bike on the highway is making the dealer liable....he is an expert in law and if he watches a customer riding such a bike then he is communicating to the customer that the e-bike is OK to use on UK roads.
I just couldn't see how any S-class customer would buy such a bike without test riding it and no proper private land is available to offer a legal test,so it became a bit of a non starter.
Some dealers just take the risk and cross their fingers!!!
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Rob....I got my legal guys to look at the possibility of getting the customer to sign a waiver if we sold illegal S-class bikes.
The problem is testing,if we allow a customer to test such a bike any waiver is redundant,the action of allowing a customer to test such a bike on the highway is making the dealer liable....he is an expert in law and if he watches a customer riding such a bike then he is communicating to the customer that the e-bike is OK to use on UK roads.
I just couldn't see how any S-class customer would buy such a bike without test riding it and no proper private land is available to offer a legal test,so it became a bit of a non starter.
Some dealers just take the risk and cross their fingers!!!
KudosDave

Selling an S-Class bike is of no risk to you David, its just like any motorbike shop selling a motorcross bike. They can't be used anywhere apart from private land, but they are sold every day with no issue for the retailers.

The only issue is most MX customers won't use their bike on the road, and certainly wouldn't take it to their local forest park to ride around the woods.

 

[kiaboy]

Well well well I didn't think that this post would cause such a stir. I do know about the legalities with s pedelecs. I also know that the dealer can simply alter the setting of the bike in the firmware to increase the top speed. There seem to be so many tuning mods for the Bosch system of bikes but little or nothing for the specialized. I just wanted to find out if someone else had managed to have this particular model bike " which I really like" have the firmware adjusted somewhere. If your spending£3000 on an pedelec you would want it as was designed an intended to be used. I'm not some mad cyclist. Just looking for some information on a possible future purchase.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Selling an S-Class bike is of no risk to you David, its just like any motorbike shop selling a motorcross bike. They can't be used anywhere apart from private land, but they are sold every day with no issue for the retailers.

The only issue is most MX customers won't use their bike on the road, and certainly wouldn't take it to their local forest park to ride around the woods.

Colin,I think we are in agreement my legal guys also said there was no problem in the selling but the problem is in the testing.
If I,or any of my employ,watched an S-class bike being tested on the road by a customer,especially adjacent to our premises,then I would be effectively and formally be giving a legal ok nod that it is ok to do so.
Not sure of the legal implications of courier delivery to a customer,but most people paying £2k plus for such a bike would want to test ride it. With the uncertainty I decided not to bother.
The MX bike customer would probably not expect to test the bike up the road so the problem doesnt really apply.
KudosDave

 

[Fordulike]

Well well well I didn't think that this post would cause such a stir. I do know about the legalities with s pedelecs. I also know that the dealer can simply alter the setting of the bike in the firmware to increase the top speed. There seem to be so many tuning mods for the Bosch system of bikes but little or nothing for the specialized. I just wanted to find out if someone else had managed to have this particular model bike " which I really like" have the firmware adjusted somewhere. If your spending£3000 on an pedelec you would want it as was designed an intended to be used. I'm not some mad cyclist. Just looking for some information on a possible future purchase.

Welcome to the forum kiaboy. It's not always this chaotic, just once in a while lol.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
If not, I believe Haibike and Focus do S-Pedelecs, so maybe one of their bikes will take your fancy and be easier to source in the UK

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

John,

The waiver, while a bit over dramatic, was not daft.

As I said, possession/sale of the modded bike is not illegal.

The waiver, presumably saying the buyer would not use the bike illegally, does offer the dealer extra protection.

Not that the dealer needs it.

Just a quick note to say that pretty much everything in this post of yours Rob is incorrect.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well well well I didn't think that this post would cause such a stir. I do know about the legalities with s pedelecs. I also know that the dealer can simply alter the setting of the bike in the firmware to increase the top speed. There seem to be so many tuning mods for the Bosch system of bikes but little or nothing for the specialized. I just wanted to find out if someone else had managed to have this particular model bike " which I really like" have the firmware adjusted somewhere. If your spending£3000 on an pedelec you would want it as was designed an intended to be used. I'm not some mad cyclist. Just looking for some information on a possible future purchase.

Sorry only just see this, I'm afraid you a missing a key point. Altering a normal Ebike by removing the limit doesn't make it an spedelec. What you have a bicycle without a speed restricted motor, this is technically and importantly different to a vehicle designed, built and sold as an spedelec.

 

[Artstu]

Sorry only just see this, I'm afraid you a missing a key point. Altering a normal Ebike by removing the limit doesn't make it an spedelec. What you have a bicycle without a speed restricted motor, this is technically and importantly different to a vehicle designed, built and sold as an spedelec.

hmm stick a number plate holder and a rear view mirror on and Bob's your uncle. ..

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

hmm stick a number plate holder and a rear view mirror on and Bob's your uncle. ..

If only things in life were that simple.

 

[Artstu]

If only things in life were that simple.

In that case I think you're missing a trick here, showing how an S-pedelec varies from a dongled e-bike would surely give credence to your campaign.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

It has to be able to do 20km an hour without pedalling and the brakes have to be better... Those are just two off the top of my head, that you can't do on a dongled stock Ebike.

 

[Artstu]

It has to be able to do 20km an hour without pedalling and the brakes have to be better... Those are just two off the top of my head, that you can't do on a dongled stock Ebike.

Interesting, so a weedy dongled e-bike isn't quite the beast of a moped you've been making them out to be.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Interesting, so a weedy dongled e-bike isn't quite the beast of a moped you've been making them out to be.

I have NEVER complained about the use of dongled ebikes because I think they are too fast!!!!!

I complain about the sale of them because the dealers doing it are misleading customers and not following in line with trading standards laws.

I complain about their use Offroad because it has the very real potential to mean access is removed for all ebikes and we will never get it back.

I try to make people aware that dongled ebikes are NOT the same as spedelecs.

All I'm trying to say is that THEY ARE mopeds, it's just that a spedelec is built to be one, and a dongled Ebike can't even be one if there was a way to register them in the UK.

I would never describe a moped as a beast, and I've just spent the day thrashing around the Tuscan hills on a classic Vespa so I'm speaking from experience.

 

[Artstu]

I try to make people aware that dongled ebikes are NOT the same as spedelecs.

I think I understand. So dongled e-bikes are not s-pedelecs because they're half the price, and they don't have a number plate bracket and rear view mirror to take off.

 

[oldtom]

I think I understand. So dongled e-bikes are not s-pedelecs because they're half the price, and they don't have a number plate bracket and rear view mirror to take off.

I don't understand why they are needed, other, perhaps, than to fulfil a perverse desire to break the law.

Tom

 

[Artstu]

I don't understand why they are needed, other, perhaps, than to fulfil a perverse desire to break the law.

Tom

Quite agree, 15.5 mph is plenty fast enough.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I think I understand. So dongled e-bikes are not s-pedelecs because they're half the price, and they don't have a number plate bracket and rear view mirror to take off.

That and the fact an spedelec has a warranty and a CE certificate... and the fact that an spedelec can be sold legally by a dealer and the customer will be protected. Also the fact an spedelec has a frame built by someone who knew it was going to be an spedelec, and it has the brakes needed to stop a bike of that weight capable of that speed.

If you buy a normal ebike with a dongle youll be supporting a dealer who is breaking lots of trading standards laws by selling you the bike, so you won't know how long they will be around.

The EN CE safety certificate that your dongled ebike won't have.... could up if being important if you're ever unfortunate to be involved in an accident.