Legal Pitfalls

[TwoWheels1954]

Hello everyone, I'm new around here but hoping that someone can offer me some help with legalities. I'm feeling slightly aggrieved because I bought a new E-bike from a local dealer earlier this week and, despite making it clear that I wanted it for road use, I now find that it's illegal on a road with registering with the DVLC etc. It's particularly galling in that he invited me to take it out on the road for a test drive and made no reference to the legal situation when I said that I'd come to pick the new one up on my old bike, which I part exchanged, and then ride the new one home. So, although he knew that I was about to break the law, he said nothing.

Looking at his website again, there is a page on the legal position but it's buried quite deep in the rest of the pages and this is the only place where it mentions that the bikes he sells are sold for off-road only unless registered etc.

Yes, I know all about buyer beware but, if you go to a car dealer to buy a new car, you don't expect to have to search the net to find out if the new car is road legal! You have to place some trust in the integrity of the dealer.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but the reality is that I'm here in this position and thinking about what to do including registering the bike with the DVLC etc. and wondering if there's anyone out there who's gone down that route and could give me some advice on how to go about it, what's involved and your experience of timescales. Selling it is also an option but one I'm reluctant to contemplate at the moment.

 

[flecc]

Tell us the make and model of the e-bike. Some European models have certificates of approval from manufacture which makes them very simple to register with the DVLC.
.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

It's a Wing brand and Flying model. It's 48 V and 1500W.

 

[flecc]

It's a Wing brand and Flying model. It's 48 V and 1500W.

That isn't good news since there is no pre approval.

That means to register it you must first submit it to an approved testing station where the vehicle inspectors check how it measures up to the requirements and they can be challenging. It will fall into one of the moped classes, so you would need third party insurance and an appropriate driving licence.

Here's couple of links for you to work through and see what is involved and how your model compares with the requirements in the single vehicle approval manual:

Vehicle approval

Type approval, individual (IVA), motorcycle single vehicle approval, voluntary approval, certificate of initial fitness, accessibility approval, fees, forms, replacement certificates

www.gov.uk

Legality of high power conversion kits

Hi every one, I'm currently commuting 30miles each way some days on a Haibike Sduro. It's fun but takes too long to do every day. I was looking at getting a Pedelec with a 28mph top speed but it looks like they cost around £5k which is out of my price range. A cheaper option would be to buy...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

.

 

[Zlatan]

It's a Wing brand and Flying model. It's 48 V and 1500W.

Yep, definitely illegal as far as pedelecs are concerned.
I had a similar argument a few years ago about a log burner bought for a barge. (it too was illegal)
Citizens Advice were brilliant. They got in touch with a lawyer they worked with who wrote a letter to mentioned company. They gave a full refund.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

That isn't good news since there is no pre approval.

That means to register it you must first submit it to an approved testing station where the vehicle inspectors check how it measures up to the requirements and they can be challenging. It will fall into one of the moped classes, so you would need third party insurance and an appropriate driving licence.

Here's couple of links for you to work through and see what is involved and how your model compares with the requirements in the single vehicle approval manual:

Vehicle approval

Type approval, individual (IVA), motorcycle single vehicle approval, voluntary approval, certificate of initial fitness, accessibility approval, fees, forms, replacement certificates

www.gov.uk

Legality of high power conversion kits

Hi every one, I'm currently commuting 30miles each way some days on a Haibike Sduro. It's fun but takes too long to do every day. I was looking at getting a Pedelec with a 28mph top speed but it looks like they cost around £5k which is out of my price range. A cheaper option would be to buy...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

.

Thanks for that, I'll work through the links you sent me and see where that gets me.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Yep, definitely illegal as far as pedelecs are concerned.
I had a similar argument a few years ago about a log burner bought for a barge. (it too was illegal)
Citizens Advice were brilliant. They got in touch with a lawyer they worked with who wrote a letter to mentioned company. They gave a full refund.

Thanks for your reply. It's a possibility to go down the same route but I'll see if there are other options first.

 

[flecc]

I agree with Zlatan's recommendation, try to back out of the deal and get a full refund since that is definitely the best way forward.

You should have been pre warned by the dealer and they were legally required to ensure you had the necessary driving licence when they let you test it on the road.
.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Just shows how disinterested the police and trading standards are in ebikes when a business like this can exist. I'm guessing the truth is many people buy their ebikes there and use them and have no issues with authorities at all.

It looks like they sell very low end bikes with ebike kits fitted. How much is that battery £200-300 retail. The kits are probably around £200-300 and the bike looks like something that would be £250 or less. There is about £750 in retail price parts there. Just looks poor value to me.

Don't get me wrong I think direct drive hub motors are brilliant, very reliable and you can enable regen which on a bicycle can be really effective especially reducing brake pad wear. It's just you can have something so much better for similar money with a kit and a much better bike to fit it to for similar or less money.

 

[matthewslack]

Hello everyone, I'm new around here but hoping that someone can offer me some help with legalities. I'm feeling slightly aggrieved because I bought a new E-bike from a local dealer earlier this week and, despite making it clear that I wanted it for road use, I now find that it's illegal on a road with registering with the DVLC etc. It's particularly galling in that he invited me to take it out on the road for a test drive and made no reference to the legal situation when I said that I'd come to pick the new one up on my old bike, which I part exchanged, and then ride the new one home. So, although he knew that I was about to break the law, he said nothing.

Looking at his website again, there is a page on the legal position but it's buried quite deep in the rest of the pages and this is the only place where it mentions that the bikes he sells are sold for off-road only unless registered etc.

Yes, I know all about buyer beware but, if you go to a car dealer to buy a new car, you don't expect to have to search the net to find out if the new car is road legal! You have to place some trust in the integrity of the dealer.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but the reality is that I'm here in this position and thinking about what to do including registering the bike with the DVLC etc. and wondering if there's anyone out there who's gone down that route and could give me some advice on how to go about it, what's involved and your experience of timescales. Selling it is also an option but one I'm reluctant to contemplate at the moment.

Take it back and in legal terms inform them that you 'reject' it because of the issues you have become aware of, and which they did not make you aware of.

Full refund, no fuss is your right.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

I agree with Zlatan's recommendation, try to back out of the deal and get a full refund since that is definitely the best way forward.

You should have been pre warned by the dealer and they were legally required to ensure you had the necessary driving licence when they let you test it on the road.
.

Thanks for that, it sounds like good advice. It's also reassuring to know that there are some legal duties on the retailer to warn me rather than rely on me reading a tucked away page on his website. My only concern is that there are no witnesses to our conversations so what was said is my word against his.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Take it back and in legal terms inform them that you 'reject' it because of the issues you have become aware of, and which they did not make you aware of.

Full refund, no fuss is your right.

Thanks for your reply, it seems that thats the best way to go.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Just shows how disinterested the police and trading standards are in ebikes when a business like this can exist. I'm guessing the truth is many people buy their ebikes there and use them and have no issues with authorities at all.

It looks like they sell very low end bikes with ebike kits fitted. How much is that battery £200-300 retail. The kits are probably around £200-300 and the bike looks like something that would be £250 or less. There is about £750 in retail price parts there. Just looks poor value to me.

Don't get me wrong I think direct drive hub motors are brilliant, very reliable and you can enable regen which on a bicycle can be really effective especially reducing brake pad wear. It's just you can have something so much better for similar money with a kit and a much better bike to fit it to for similar or less money.

Thanks for the information, I'll give it some thought once I get this settled.

 

[flecc]

My only concern is that there are no witnesses to our conversations so what was said is my word against his.

Don't worry, the lawyers are no strangers to this sort of questionable trading and your account will be accepted.

I've looked further into your bike and it appear to be capable of 36-38 mph, likely to make it very difficult to register since that sort of speed is well above the lower two moped classes. You might need to fit a dipping headlight, rear view mirrors, stop light operating on both brake levers, illuminated rear number plate mounting etc and it probably has none of those at the moment.
.

 

[matthewslack]

Good luck, and report back!

 

[AGS]

Yes it’s not instantly clear if you don’t already know the legal requirements and you do have to scroll down to the bottom of the home page and then it says:

“Our emphasis is on producing the best electric bikes and to keep the price realistic.
All Wing eBikes are being sold as off road eBike as they have 1000w + motors.
All Wing eBikes come unrestricted. The speed and power can be restricted for on road use. Please check the gov. Website for up to date information on UK Laws”.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Don't worry, the lawyers are no strangers to this sort of questionable trading and your account will be accepted.

I've looked further into your bike and it appear to be capable of 36-38 mph, likely to make it very difficult to register since that sort of speed is well above the lower two moped classes. You might need to fit a dipping headlight, rear view mirrors, stop light operating on both brake levers, illuminated rear number plate mounting etc and it probably has none of those at the moment.
.

Wow, that's a lot of potential modifications. It does have a motion sensor operated brake light but I can't imagine that meeting the legal requirements. It has none of the other things that you mentioned.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Good luck, and report back!

thank you, the least I can do is report back for the benefit of others who may get into a similar situation.

 

[TwoWheels1954]

Yes it’s not instantly clear if you don’t already know the legal requirements and you do have to scroll down to the bottom of the home page and then it says:

“Our emphasis is on producing the best electric bikes and to keep the price realistic.
All Wing eBikes are being sold as off road eBike as they have 1000w + motors.
All Wing eBikes come unrestricted. The speed and power can be restricted for on road use. Please check the gov. Website for up to date information on UK Laws”.

that's the page that I saw yesterday and I agree, that it isn't obvious or clear until you read that page,. As far as I can see, that's the first and only place where the legality is mentioned.

 

[soundwave]

i have been braking the law since 2014 and i ride my bike pissed going 30mph some days i get scooters blasting past me going 50mph evey just eat rider has a 1000w+ hub drive and there are 100s of them.

id take it back and get a 3kw motor