Legal Pitfalls

[flecc]

So what is your interpretation of this;

DfT: Pedal cycles converted to ‘twist and go’ exempt from type approval – Pedelecs – Electric Bike Community

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Also I would disagree about being a fully acting throttle as you can set it to ghost pedal quite legally so make no effort yourself. I was watching this video earlier and Atlanta is clearly ghost pedalling with a full range throttle which is clearly a moped style ebike which anyone can do I guess by setting a low gear which is slower than the hub motor speed and therefore cannot assist the motor and is just pedalling to activate the motor. Apart from moving your legs without resistance it is a legal twist and go throttle ebike as long as it only assists to 15.5mph and the wattage can be considered 250W.

So are you saying the Wisper type approved ebikes are actually illegal and the police are turning a blind eye to them. I'd be interested in Wisper's viewpoint on this. Surely the type approval process is completely legal even if limited to use in the UK. The majority of people in the UK have zero interest in the laws elsewhere in Europe because they don't use their ebike in mainland Europe. It's a minor restriction not to be able to use such ebikes in mainland Europe that will effect only a very small amount of people. However there are loads of twist and go ebikes available across Europe again the awful EU ebike laws are pretty much ignored by a huge number of countries. Sometimes laws are so abysmal and unenforceable they just become a bit of a joke and are ignored. However I totally accept that if you want to follow the letter of the law you cannot use such ebikes in mainland Europe.

It's a brave and foolhardy man who contradicts me on this subject.

First ghost pedalling is still pedalling having to be done, so not in not way a contradiction what I posted. Member Stumpy with one artificial leg can find ghost pedalling difficult at times for example.

Now to deal with throttles. The pedelec law remains entirely unchanged, fully acting throttles are always illegal on bureaucracy free pedelecs.

I've no wish to upset my good friend David Miall of Wisper, but the machines he has been selling entirely legally with throttle for prosecution free use in Great Britain are in fact are individually Single Vehicle Approved, not Type Approved. The law being used which still remains fully in force here and in the EU specifies Type Approval, a different thing since that can only apply to manufactured complete pedelecs. Of course David's company Wisper as a manufacturer could type approve initially, but that makes them motor vehicles in law.

In fact 250 LPM is a Ministerial Permission to ignore the existing law, the only way to get round the EU rules when we were still in the EU and still even now since we've kept that law in force for trading reasons. Here's a fuller explanation of all the wrinkles that I've previously posted:

"The stumbling block here is the difference between Type Approval and Single Vehicle approval.

Under EU pedelec law, also now UK law as ruled by the Great Repeal Bill, bureacracy free pedelecs are only permitted on the roads if power ceases when pedalling stops. That allows them, via an exemption (h) in the type approval legislation, to be not considered as motor vehicles.

If power does not cease when pedalling stops, they are motor vehicles with all that implies, including that they have to be Type Approved AS MOTOR VEHICLES.

But type approval only applies for manufactured complete machines. Any individual machine not type approved or which is assembled in some way can get a Single Vehicle Approval to be used on the roads. However, nowhere in any of the regulations is there an exemption for Single Vehicle Approval pedelecs to remain pedelecs, so a strict interpretation is that they are not allowed on the roads as bicycles, even if all the other provisions for a pedelec including power cutting out when pedalling stops are met. i.e. All kit bikes are illegal.

A less strict interpretation is that, in the spirit of the law, Single Vehicle Approval is the same as having type approval. However, that in turn means the pedelec will still be a motor vehicle in law if power doesn't cut when pedalling stops.

The DfT have taken that less strict interpretation and extended it by saying they will consider single approved pedelecs with full throttles to be not motor vehicles but bicycles. However, therein lies the impasse. The looser interpretation they have assumed also insists that such machines are motor vehicles since it says Single Vehicle is the same as Type Approval, so any pedelec with fully acting throttle remains a motor vehicle with no exemption in law. It cannot be both subject to Type Approval yet also be exempted from type approval law.

So the provision being used is only a Ministerial order permitting an illegal use, a form of local allowance only. Indeed when applying for a single vehicle approval the Guidance Notes title says as much:

GUIDANCE NOTES FOR COMPLETING AN APPLICATION FOR A MINISTER’S APPROVAL CERTIFICATE (MSVA 1)

It is similar to the Ministerial Order that Paul Boateng made as Home Secretary when he gave permission for cyclists to use the pavement when in genuine fear of the traffic on certain occasions. That is still illegal, merely exempt from prosecution if fulfilling the Minister's conditions."

So there's no need for anyone with a 250 LPM mac hine to worry, they will definitely not be prosecuted for using a full throttle, even though the law still does not allow one.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It's a brave and foolhardy man who contradicts me on this subject.

First ghost pedalling is still pedalling having to be done, so not in not way a contradiction what I posted. Member Stumpy with one artificial leg can find ghost pedalling difficult at times for example.

Now to deal with throttles. The pedelec law remains entirely unchanged, fully acting throttles are always illegal on bureaucracy free pedelecs.

I've no wish to upset my good friend David Miall of Wisper, but the machines he has been selling entirely legally with throttle for prosecution free use in Great Britain are in fact are individually Single Vehicle Approved, not Type Approved. The law being used which still remains fully in force here and in the EU specifies Type Approval, a different thing since that can only apply to manufactured complete pedelecs. Of course David's company Wisper as a manufacturer could type approve initially, but that makes them motor vehicles in law.

In fact 250 LPM is a Ministerial Permission to ignore the existing law, the only way to get round the EU rules when we were still in the EU and still even now since we've kept that law in force for trading reasons. Here's a fuller explanation of all the wrinkles that I've previously posted:

"The stumbling block here is the difference between Type Approval and Single Vehicle approval.

Under EU pedelec law, also now UK law as ruled by the Great Repeal Bill, bureacracy free pedelecs are only permitted on the roads if power ceases when pedalling stops. That allows them, via an exemption (h) in the type approval legislation, to be not considered as motor vehicles.

If power does not cease when pedalling stops, they are motor vehicles with all that implies, including that they have to be Type Approved AS MOTOR VEHICLES.

But type approval only applies for manufactured complete machines. Any individual machine not type approved or which is assembled in some way can get a Single Vehicle Approval to be used on the roads. However, nowhere in any of the regulations is there an exemption for Single Vehicle Approval pedelecs to remain pedelecs, so a strict interpretation is that they are not allowed on the roads as bicycles, even if all the other provisions for a pedelec including power cutting out when pedalling stops are met. i.e. All kit bikes are illegal.

A less strict interpretation is that, in the spirit of the law, Single Vehicle Approval is the same as having type approval. However, that in turn means the pedelec will still be a motor vehicle in law if power doesn't cut when pedalling stops.

The DfT have taken that less strict interpretation and extended it by saying they will consider single approved pedelecs with full throttles to be not motor vehicles but bicycles. However, therein lies the impasse. The looser interpretation they have assumed also insists that such machines are motor vehicles since it says Single Vehicle is the same as Type Approval, so any pedelec with fully acting throttle remains a motor vehicle with no exemption in law.

So the provision you are using is only a Ministerial order permitting an illegal use, a form of local allowance only. Indeed when applying for a single vehicle approval the Guidance Notes title says as much:

GUIDANCE NOTES FOR COMPLETING AN APPLICATION FOR A MINISTER’S APPROVAL CERTIFICATE (MSVA 1)

It is similar to the Ministerial Order that Paul Boateng made as Home Secretary when he gave permission for cyclists to use the pavement when in genuine fear of the traffic on certain occasions. That is still illegal, merely exempt from prosecution if fulfilling the Minister's conditions."

So there's no need for anyone with a 250 LPM mac hine to worry, they will definitely not be prosecuted for using a full throttle, even though the law still does not allow one.
.

Hiya Flecc, I promise you haven’t upset me at all and of course you are correct… as always! :0)

Our full throttle bikes are in deed individually Single Vehicle Approved, not Type Approved, my error.

All the best David

 

[StuartsProjects]

Also I would disagree about being a fully acting throttle as you can set it to ghost pedal quite legally so make no effort yourself.

Surely it requires some effort to move the pedals ?

OK, so its a very small effort, but thats not the same as no effort.

 

[Woosh]

So there's no need for anyone with a 250 LPM machine to worry, they will definitely not be prosecuted for using a full throttle, even though the law still does not allow one.

A neat summing up for all of us.

 

[flecc]

Hiya Flecc, I promise you haven’t upset me at all and of course you are correct… as always! :0)

Our full throttle bikes are in deed individually Single Vehicle Approved, not Type Approved, my error.

All the best David

Thanks David. I've added this footnote to my post:

"So there's no need for anyone with a 250 LPM machine to worry, they will definitely not be prosecuted for using a full throttle, even though the law still does not allow one."

Just as no London taxi driver was ever prosecuted for not having the bale of hay in his boot for his non-existent horse that the law required until recently !
.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Surely it requires some effort to move the pedals ?

OK, so its a very small effort, but thats not the same as no effort.

Obviously it requires a small amount of effort but 100% of propelling the vehicle is using the motor not the cyclist and it becomes a bit of a farce to get around extremely poor legislation.

 

[flecc]

Obviously it requires a small amount of effort but 100% of propelling the vehicle is using the motor not the cyclist and it becomes a bit of a farce to get around extremely poor legislation.

This is where I have to disagree with the latter part of your sentence since I believe the EU law is excellent with only one minor fault. However I totally agree that it is a farce to provide a throttle for motor only operation on a 250 watt rated machine, since they cannot possibly have sufficient hill climbing ability for anywhere near enough normal roads.

It becomes an even bigger farce since in EU law there is the L1e-A class (LPM) which does the job so much better since they are basically a 15.5 mph pedelec with throttle that have up to 1000 watts rating to do the job much better for those who cannot pedal at times.

The trouble here is Britain once again messing up perfectly good EU law by requiring a driving licence registration etc for L1e-A. Pop over to France and a 14 year old can ride one without a licence.
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Obviously it requires a small amount of effort but 100% of propelling the vehicle is using the motor not the cyclist and it becomes a bit of a farce to get around extremely poor legislation.

Perhaps the rules could or maybe should be changed to rule out ghost pedaling, but until they are ...............................

 

[AndyBike]

I had a similar argument a few years ago about a log burner bought for a barge. (it too was illegal)

I thought these type of stoves we the norm on barges. A big old (120yr) sailing boat i used to sail on had an old fashioned cast iron stove for burning coal, wood etc. First time ive heard theres a law concerning them.

Why did they say it was illegal ?. Fumes or such.

 

[Zlatan]

I thought these type of stoves we the norm on barges. A big old (120yr) sailing boat i used to sail on had an old fashioned cast iron stove for burning coal, wood etc. First time ive heard theres a law concerning them.

Why did they say it was illegal ?. Fumes or such.

For quite a while now any equipment used on any boats must meet minimum standards, and be certified as such. (with clear marking on equipment and relevant paper work.) This is both the case for new boats (definetely barges) and for any boat to pass mandatory boat safety inspections. (regs cover stuff like gas storage, fridges, cookers, electrical devices and stoves)
Individual builders (with relevant training) can self certify (or could when I was involved) certain requirements. (eg placement of gas cupboards) but items such as wood burning stoves must have past testing and be stamped accordingly.(I, d guess CO2 emissions)
Stove in question had no markings. (at time CE marks), and would have failed boat inspection.(was a new one but by letter of law irrelevant)
If anyone is using any stove on British waterways without markings, it should fail boat inspection. Boat examiners might turn a blind eye on older boats but certainly not on new ones, but I doubt it. Imagine some owner expiring through CO2 poisoning a week or so after boat safety test?? Somebody would go to prison.
One of jobs I often had to do when involved with refitting old barges was remove some dangerous, often a home made excuse for a wood burner. Rules around barges, boats are equally as strict as for housing, in fact probably more so and rightly so.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Perhaps the rules could or maybe should be changed to rule out ghost pedaling, but until they are ...............................

Why would you want to? For most people in the world an ebike with a throttle is the norm. It's the most logical, efficient, reliable and cheap way of controlling an ebike motor and is ideal in start/stop urban traffic and for those people who are frail or disabled and need greater assistance at times. Not that there is anything wrong with a pedelec system its just that should be just one option on the marketplace not forced as the only option by dire incompetent and corrupt legislation. However the legislation is mainly ignored in the UK and even across mainland Europe as unworkable and anti-consumer. I can't think of any legislation more ignored by so many from consumers to the road authorities themselves. Ghost pedalling is currently a legal alternative for those who want to follow the letter of the law however stupid that is because of dismal legislation.

Throttles are the best option on a ebike. You only apply power when you need it so it can massively extend range for example and help batteries last longer. For example you can ride everywhere you want to, and only on hills where you struggle do you apply the throttle its so easy to push yourself to the limits if you want to with a throttle and use it as a bailout option when you are struggling. That's the beauty of a throttle you determine exactly how much assistance it gives you and at what times which is far superior to a cadence or torque sensor and its how most ebikes are controlled in the world by preference. It's not something any fair or competent authority should legislate against.

 

[Zlatan]

Why would you want to? For most people in the world an ebike with a throttle is the norm. It's the most logical, efficient, reliable and cheap way of controlling an ebike motor and is ideal in start/stop urban traffic and for those people who are frail or disabled and need greater assistance at times. Not that there is anything wrong with a pedelec system its just that should be just one option on the marketplace not forced as the only option by dire incompetent and corrupt legislation. However the legislation is mainly ignored in the UK and even across mainland Europe as unworkable and anti-consumer. I can't think of any legislation more ignored by so many from consumers to the road authorities themselves. Ghost pedalling is currently a legal alternative for those who want to follow the letter of the law however stupid that is because of dismal legislation.

Throttles are the best option on a ebike. You only apply power when you need it so it can massively extend range for example and help batteries last longer. For example you can ride everywhere you want to, and only on hills where you struggle do you apply the throttle its so easy to push yourself to the limits if you want to with a throttle and use it as a bailout option when you are struggling. That's the beauty of a throttle you determine exactly how much assistance it gives you and at what times which is far superior to a cadence or torque sensor and its how most ebikes are controlled in the world by preference. It's not something any fair or competent authority should legislate against.

I removed throttle from grandsons bike (Tongshen 250 w crank drive) primarily on safety grounds. I don't think anyone would likely face prosecution for having one, especially if it was the only issue... On a couple of occasions he fell off bike and throttle was pushed on.. There isn't loads of power but certainly enough to damage fingers in chain or cause some other problem.
I, m not convinced they are such a help over having to pedal. Suspect it might make you lazy... Riders should develop habit of being in right gear as they slow down and have ability to use pedal accordingly to set off. With modern motors, in right setting, in right gear the amount of torque required through pedal to move off is neglible.
Think rules arer fine.
Having feet on pedals should be a prerequisite for cycling.. With a throttle it isn't.

 

[Plas man]

Any way , the bike is registered and on the road - now classed as a motor vehicle do they stamp a VIN number on the frame ? and the corresponding number on the documents .

 

[Bonzo Banana]

I removed throttle from grandsons bike (Tongshen 250 w crank drive) primarily on safety grounds. I don't think anyone would likely face prosecution for having one, especially if it was the only issue... On a couple of occasions he fell off bike and throttle was pushed on.. There isn't loads of power but certainly enough to damage fingers in chain or cause some other problem.
I, m not convinced they are such a help over having to pedal. Suspect it might make you lazy... Riders should develop habit of being in right gear as they slow down and have ability to use pedal accordingly to set off. With modern motors, in right setting, in right gear the amount of torque required through pedal to move off is neglible.
Think rules arer fine.
Having feet on pedals should be a prerequisite for cycling.. With a throttle it isn't.

Most of what you said doesn't make a lot of sense. Many cadence and torque based sensors are set to power levels that assist all the time depending on your effort and settings. This is in contrast to throttles where you have full control so you can use them as infrequently or frequently as you like so could make you lazier but it could also make it much harder too hence the benefits of a throttle as you have full control. So you can equally make the case that a cadence or torque sensor makes you lazier and it is more difficult to keep changing power levels with those in traffic and less safe. All throttles should return instantly to the zero position and should not be active in an accident unless your hand is still rotating it for some reason. This is not something I've ever heard criticised about throttles before and seems like a stretch to me. Most throttle ebikes will have a on/off procedure and instantly unassist when released.

I take your point about being in the right gear etc but sometimes you are caught out by other things happening on the road etc. Generally safety is increased with a throttle. It gives you power exactly when you want and never has a difficult delay like cadence sensors and possibly torque sensors so increases safety at junctions. I remember reading on a forum of someone who had a mid-drive ebike and at a junction on a hill just as he was moving off and the torque of his motor peaked his chain snapped because the chain was under maximum load and he was left right in front of an car which luckily had time to stop. A throttle based hub motor ebike does not have that issue as even if the chain snapped (highly unlikely with a hub motor anyway) the hub motor would still do its job under throttle control.

The safety aspect of throttles I would say is much better than relying on sensors which create an extra complication and delays. However mid-drive is always going to be less safe than hub motors as its much more complicated and more likely to lead to component failure both in the motor itself and the drivetrain. Also because they put the battery under much higher current drain when at peak watts they lead to more battery fires at least for ebike kits where often people go cheap on a suitable battery for a mid-drive motor where as hub motors can get by with much lower Wh batteries typically.

So to me if you wanted maximum safety for an ebike it would be a hub motor based ebike with a throttle. Simple, reliable and full control and with much extended drivetrain life.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Any way , the bike is registered and on the road - now classed as a motor vehicle do they stamp a VIN number on the frame ? and the corresponding number on the documents .

Hi Plasman,

The stamped frame number is used on the Single Vehicle Approval doc as the VIN.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The throttle control is also a useful range extender enabling riders to access higher motor power very easily and effectively for a few seconds when needed, rather than leaving the bike on max power continuously.

Alex Bowden of eBike Tips writes…

“The thumb throttle is positioned between your hand and the main power controls and feels like nothing more than an awkward irrelevance when riding with the assistance level set to max. However, in levels one and two in particular, it really comes into its own. This is because it basically gives you easy, instant access to maximum assistance without having to shift up and down again with multiple button presses.’

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

For most people in the world an ebike with a throttle is the norm. - - - - - - - - - - - - its how most ebikes are controlled in the world by preference.

You keep repeating this but it is not true. The sale of no throttle pedelecs in the EU and EEC countries and Japan has long vastly exceeded their sales anywhere else in the world. The same no throttle law exists in a number of other countries as well. The main exception using throttles to only a limited extent is the USA where e-bikes are more leisure toys than transport and their sales are so low that their vast country is served by very few dealers.

I respect your right to have an opinion on the law, but it ignores the most important aspect, that bureacracy free pedelecs must remain bicycles and not become motor vehicles able to be propelled without pedalling.

As I've repeatedly explained to you, including just yesterday, there are classes provided to take care of that need for those wishing to have such vehicles. Namely L1e-A and L1e-B, the Low Powered Moped and S-class respectively. They should use those.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Most of what you said doesn't make a lot of sense. Many cadence and torque based sensors are set to power levels that assist all the time depending on your effort and settings. This is in contrast to throttles where you have full control so you can use them as infrequently or frequently as you like so could make you lazier but it could also make it much harder too hence the benefits of a throttle as you have full control. So you can equally make the case that a cadence or torque sensor makes you lazier and it is more difficult to keep changing power levels with those in traffic and less safe. All throttles should return instantly to the zero position and should not be active in an accident unless your hand is still rotating it for some reason. This is not something I've ever heard criticised about throttles before and seems like a stretch to me. Most throttle ebikes will have a on/off procedure and instantly unassist when released.

I take your point about being in the right gear etc but sometimes you are caught out by other things happening on the road etc. Generally safety is increased with a throttle. It gives you power exactly when you want and never has a difficult delay like cadence sensors and possibly torque sensors so increases safety at junctions. I remember reading on a forum of someone who had a mid-drive ebike and at a junction on a hill just as he was moving off and the torque of his motor peaked his chain snapped because the chain was under maximum load and he was left right in front of an car which luckily had time to stop. A throttle based hub motor ebike does not have that issue as even if the chain snapped (highly unlikely with a hub motor anyway) the hub motor would still do its job under throttle control.

The safety aspect of throttles I would say is much better than relying on sensors which create an extra complication and delays. However mid-drive is always going to be less safe than hub motors as its much more complicated and more likely to lead to component failure both in the motor itself and the drivetrain. Also because they put the battery under much higher current drain when at peak watts they lead to more battery fires at least for ebike kits where often people go cheap on a suitable battery for a mid-drive motor where as hub motors can get by with much lower Wh batteries typically.

So to me if you wanted maximum safety for an ebike it would be a hub motor based ebike with a throttle. Simple, reliable and full control and with much extended drivetrain life.

Motors do not snap chains, riders do.
The maximum torque a motor can exert (a legal one) pales into insignificance at side of a rider stood on a static pedal. I haven't a clue why you persist on this tack of rubbishing crank drives and insisting you need a throttle on a pushbike. I, m 67,a touch over weight, oner false knee and post 4 heart ops and not a gifted cyclist by any means, yet setting off, even on steepest hills on off road tracks is simply not even an issue to mention let alone complain about. Pedelecs with throttles are not pedelecs. They are mopeds or motorbikes.
I suggest you go and try a decent crank drive and perhaps then you, d see some sense in my earlier post? A throttle on any of crank drive bikes I, ve used would be superfluous and form bad habits, and it's illegal. We don't need them.
Perhaps it covers up some deficiency in hub drives?(ie, ability to dump current into a motor to compensate for limited gearing choices)

 

[Bonzo Banana]

You keep repeating this but it is not true. The sale of no throttle pedelecs in the EU and EEC countries and Japan has long vastly exceeded their sales anywhere else in the world. The same no throttle law exists in a number of other countries as well. The main exception using throttles to only a limited extent is the USA where e-bikes are more leisure toys than transport and their sales are so low that their vast country is served by very few dealers.

I respect your right to have an opinion on the law, but it ignores the most important aspect, that bureacracy free pedelecs must remain bicycles and not become motor vehicles able to be propelled without pedalling.

As I've repeatedly explained to you, including just yesterday, there are classes provided to take care of that need for those wishing to have such vehicles. Namely L1e-A and L1e-B, the Low Powered Moped and S-class respectively. They should use those.
.

How is it not true. You have just added a load of extra conditions which are not applicable to what I have written. I said most people in the world use throttles with ebikes and as those markets are huge like China, India, most of Asia, South America, Africa, North America and many other countries 'most' would apply. Many of the Chinese ebikes we see in Europe are adapted to sell in Europe they don't have pedelec features when sold in China and most other markets. Ebike kits often have pedelec systems added which don't even work that well. Those voilamart kits work beautifully with a throttle but the basic implementation of the pedelec system means as soon as you rotate the pedals you dangerously get full power which is both dangerous and more damaging to the battery. The pedelec system is in minority use in the world and the fact you deny that shows just how warped your viewpoint has become.

Also from all the videos I've seen where a ebike is sold with both a pedelec system and a full range throttle in the USA for example there is a very high skew towards use of the throttle over or active with the pedelec system. I.e. the majority of ebike riders use throttle control.

The percentage of ebikes sold in the world with only a pedelec system is going to be very low. Even here in the UK a huge number of Chinese brand and imported from Asia ebikes come with a throttle control which you have to activate in the settings to get to work by a secret menu typically.

Remember a huge number of ebikes in the world are sold with basic controllers with litle logic and in India brushed motor ebike kits are huge sellers which are throttle only.

The only companies selling purely pedal assist/pedelec type ebikes seems to be European brands who are typically very high priced and only niche sellers in the US for example.

There is a statistic here that shows in China how much an average ebike costs compared to Europe and the US.

Useful Facts & Stats of E-Bikes [For 2024] + Infographic

The most fascinating e-bike stats and facts for 2024 are here! We've gathered all the info we could find in one place for you to enjoy!

www.ebicycles.com

Ultimately readers will have to decide who is telling porkies and who is being factual. I completely stand by my comments that most people in the world use throttles with ebikes and most of those don't even have the option to choose pedal assist as not even fitted to their ebikes.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Motors do not snap chains, riders do.
The maximum torque a motor can exert (a legal one) pales into insignificance at side of a rider stood on a static pedal. I haven't a clue why you persist on this rack of rubbishing crank drives and insisting you need a throttle on a pushbike. I, m 67,a touch over weight, oner false knee and post 4 heart ops and not a gifted cyclist by any means, yet setting off, even on sterpest hills on off road tracks is simply not even an issue to mention let alone complain about. Pedelec with throttles are not pedelec. They are mopeds or motorbike.
I suggest you go and try a decent crank drive and perhaps then you, d see some sense in my earlier post? A throttle on any of crank drive bikes I, ve used would be superfluous and form bad habits, and it's illegal. We don't need them.

So lets gets this straight according to your logic. A mid-drive motor that could apply up to 5x the power of a weaker rider 100Nm vs 20Nm is not the cause of a chain breaking it is in fact the rider? Surely this is not debatable a mid-drive motor at peak up a hill can put huge additional strain on a chain compared to a conventional bicycle and the forums are full of people on mid-drive ebikes who have snapped chains and worn them down very quickly. I totally accept good practice and perhaps a shifting sensor here and there can improve things but compared to a hub motor ebike the hub motor works separately to the drivetrain so takes off a huge amount of strain/load on the drivetrain. So not only are chain snaps much less common than mid-drive motors they are much less common than even conventional bicycles.