Great post... I know politics turns many people off (or results in heated debates/rows!) but the referendum is a landmark historic turning point in our countries history and requires debating and discussion.
What astonishes me is that David Cameron and the Conservatives ran for election on a "wholesale reforms or exit referendum" mandate, adopting a "no more integration or EU expense, and more security over our borders" stance, and now seems to have moved 180 degrees to a pro-EU position (in his usual schizophrenic style of politics), sending glossy leaflets to every household doing a nice marketing job on remaining in the EU, whilst playing on sketchy fears and scare-mongering, without any hard evidence leaving the EU would fundamentally damage the UK or our economy.
It's not what we would expect from a Euro-sceptic government. It's not what we would expect from even a Euro-neutral government, that just reports the facts, so people can make an informed decision. It's basically treating voters as though they're not worthy of making an informed decision and TELLING them how they should vote. This is also supported by the fact Obama made an "in-speech" (no doubt at Cameron's request) whilst conveniently here for the Queen's birthday celebrations.. and the BBC has gone into propaganda over-drive I see, trying to build the case every day for why the UK should remain chained to the EU.
My own observations and opinions on this, are that the EU is a totally FAILED project. It's a sinking ship and the sooner we get off it the better. It would be the best decision the UK could make for so many reasons. Firstly, we'd start saying £50 million pounds a DAY. Imagine what they would do the help the struggling NHS, overcrowded schools, ease the housing shortage?
When people talk about the cost of our EU membership, they merely look at our EU membership fee (and some try to argue since we have retained our rebate, it's not so bad, and we do get some grants and funding from the EU).
Actually, the REAL cost to the British economy of our continued EU membership is colossal. It runs into 100's of billions of pounds EVERY YEAR. And I'm not exaggerating. Think about it. You have two parallel political systems. Two parallel legal systems. You have the costs on 1,000's of industries of adopting to a constant and endless stream of EU Directives and silly nonsense from the EU Commission, obsessed with common market uniformity and pointless bureaucracy, regardless of the cost or practical benefits. How straight does a banana or cucumber need to be?! Anyone remember that?
Seriously, the EU is a technocratic and bureaucracy nightmare and it's getting worse every year. Their end vision, is a federal superstate, the dissolving of nation member states, and a new kind of United States, with one economy, one currency, one military, one everything.
Who wants that in the UK? Not many. We certainly don't want the Euro which would be HUGELY damaging to the EU's economy (thank God labour weren't foolish enough to adopt it, although Gordon Brown did thrown billions of pounds down the drain selling our gold reserve to buy Euro's for a 'currency we're NEVER going to join now!)
So, how can we even consider remaining members of the EU, when the UK wants totally different things from the EU and has a totally different vision of what the EU should be, than what the EU does?
Cameron promised us a deal in the UK's interests, and that included "wholesale reforms" of the EU. He was basically told where to go by the EU. The deal he did manage to get, is hardly worth anything and comes nowhere close to what he was asking for. And he expects people to vote to remain on that basis? He must be crazy. Let's summarize what he got:
1) The UK retains its membership-fee rebate (no change then, and that's not guaranteed forever). And really, we should not even have to argue our case for this. The UK is a unique member, we're a tiny densely populated island that has to import a lot of our produce, and so our costs are far higher than other much larger countries which stronger agricultural economies and land-borders with other member-states allow cheaper and easier access to produce.
2) He's gained us the right not to remain outside the Euro (well, again, no change. So the British public made it clear we'd never adopt the Euro, even if the government forced it on us!).
3) He's got some loose agreement on the UK moving more slowly towards total economic unification the right to abstain from certain aspects such as common monetary policy (really this is a given, since 70% of the UK's economy depends on the financial services sector, and we cannot afford to take the gambles the other EU member states can here).
The crucial missing parts (the government failed to mention in their glossy leaflets) are:
1) Immigration control. No deal. in fact told absolutely NO WAY would the UK be allowed to unilaterally apply migration quotas on EU citizens entering the UK (so no sensible, sustainable points-based-system, he proposed, and the possibility of 100,000's of Turkish people coming here eventually when they gain membership). EU migration is already pushing UK immigration levels to unsustainable levels (many groups agree on this) which kind of defeats the government's own 30k a year immigration cap from those arriving from outside the EU. Cameron has been told, remaining a member or even doing trade with the EU means open borders and unquoted immigration (yet countries like the US trade with EU and don't get told, oh you must accept 100,000's of EU citizens if you want to trade with us!)
2) Border security. No deal. This ties into the above, but even Cameron's call for EU member states to be apply to apply TEMPORARY border closure or quotas on EU migration due to the very real national security risks we face (MI5/MI6 have commented on this) on allowing people to enter the UK freely from parts of the EU, and the fact so many asylum seekers on unparalleled levels are now flowing into the EU, not just from Syria, but all over the Middle East and parts of Africa. So we cannot control our borders in terms of national emergency, we cannot depot or extradite terrorists still, and we have a huge problem on the French-UK border looming with 1,000's of illegal asylum seekers amassing intent on entering the UK illegally).
3) Reforms on the future of EU: No deal. The EU is inflexible on the key issues and mandate they're pursuing regarding creating a single federal super-state model. They tell us we should use the European Parliament. We're just one tiny voice there and have no chance of getting any reforms. The Franco-German (and their cronies) dominated EU Parliament do not take the UK seriously. We're marginalized and it's pretty clear we cannot reform the EU as members.
There is no doubt, that leaving the EU carries uncertainties for the UK and challenges ahead. However, that should not be a reason for not leaving it. The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and so if much smaller countries such as Norway and Switzerland can negotiate trade deals with the EU and survive outside it, I'm pretty sure we can too. And much our trade is with America and elsewhere. The emerging and developing country markets such as India, China and South America are where the UK should now be looking to build good export trade relations. And even the Commonwealth (53 countries, over 2 billion people) is a huge opportunity for international trade and development we're just ignoring, an incredible landmass, an abundance of labour and natural resources, massive growth potential for UK firms. We are not dependent on the EU, and neither would (or should) leaving the EU affect our trade with the EU. There is no reason we can't negotiate our own trade deals with every country or regional trade blocs (and if we don't like the EU's terms, just negotiate with individual countries and go around it).
What astonishes me is that David Cameron and the Conservatives ran for election on a "wholesale reforms or exit referendum" mandate, adopting a "no more integration or EU expense, and more security over our borders" stance, and now seems to have moved 180 degrees to a pro-EU position (in his usual schizophrenic style of politics), sending glossy leaflets to every household doing a nice marketing job on remaining in the EU, whilst playing on sketchy fears and scare-mongering, without any hard evidence leaving the EU would fundamentally damage the UK or our economy.
It's not what we would expect from a Euro-sceptic government. It's not what we would expect from even a Euro-neutral government, that just reports the facts, so people can make an informed decision. It's basically treating voters as though they're not worthy of making an informed decision and TELLING them how they should vote. This is also supported by the fact Obama made an "in-speech" (no doubt at Cameron's request) whilst conveniently here for the Queen's birthday celebrations.. and the BBC has gone into propaganda over-drive I see, trying to build the case every day for why the UK should remain chained to the EU.
My own observations and opinions on this, are that the EU is a totally FAILED project. It's a sinking ship and the sooner we get off it the better. It would be the best decision the UK could make for so many reasons. Firstly, we'd start saying £50 million pounds a DAY. Imagine what they would do the help the struggling NHS, overcrowded schools, ease the housing shortage?
When people talk about the cost of our EU membership, they merely look at our EU membership fee (and some try to argue since we have retained our rebate, it's not so bad, and we do get some grants and funding from the EU).
Actually, the REAL cost to the British economy of our continued EU membership is colossal. It runs into 100's of billions of pounds EVERY YEAR. And I'm not exaggerating. Think about it. You have two parallel political systems. Two parallel legal systems. You have the costs on 1,000's of industries of adopting to a constant and endless stream of EU Directives and silly nonsense from the EU Commission, obsessed with common market uniformity and pointless bureaucracy, regardless of the cost or practical benefits. How straight does a banana or cucumber need to be?! Anyone remember that?
Seriously, the EU is a technocratic and bureaucracy nightmare and it's getting worse every year. Their end vision, is a federal superstate, the dissolving of nation member states, and a new kind of United States, with one economy, one currency, one military, one everything.
Who wants that in the UK? Not many. We certainly don't want the Euro which would be HUGELY damaging to the EU's economy (thank God labour weren't foolish enough to adopt it, although Gordon Brown did thrown billions of pounds down the drain selling our gold reserve to buy Euro's for a 'currency we're NEVER going to join now!)
So, how can we even consider remaining members of the EU, when the UK wants totally different things from the EU and has a totally different vision of what the EU should be, than what the EU does?
Cameron promised us a deal in the UK's interests, and that included "wholesale reforms" of the EU. He was basically told where to go by the EU. The deal he did manage to get, is hardly worth anything and comes nowhere close to what he was asking for. And he expects people to vote to remain on that basis? He must be crazy. Let's summarize what he got:
1) The UK retains its membership-fee rebate (no change then, and that's not guaranteed forever). And really, we should not even have to argue our case for this. The UK is a unique member, we're a tiny densely populated island that has to import a lot of our produce, and so our costs are far higher than other much larger countries which stronger agricultural economies and land-borders with other member-states allow cheaper and easier access to produce.
2) He's gained us the right not to remain outside the Euro (well, again, no change. So the British public made it clear we'd never adopt the Euro, even if the government forced it on us!).
3) He's got some loose agreement on the UK moving more slowly towards total economic unification the right to abstain from certain aspects such as common monetary policy (really this is a given, since 70% of the UK's economy depends on the financial services sector, and we cannot afford to take the gambles the other EU member states can here).
The crucial missing parts (the government failed to mention in their glossy leaflets) are:
1) Immigration control. No deal. in fact told absolutely NO WAY would the UK be allowed to unilaterally apply migration quotas on EU citizens entering the UK (so no sensible, sustainable points-based-system, he proposed, and the possibility of 100,000's of Turkish people coming here eventually when they gain membership). EU migration is already pushing UK immigration levels to unsustainable levels (many groups agree on this) which kind of defeats the government's own 30k a year immigration cap from those arriving from outside the EU. Cameron has been told, remaining a member or even doing trade with the EU means open borders and unquoted immigration (yet countries like the US trade with EU and don't get told, oh you must accept 100,000's of EU citizens if you want to trade with us!)
2) Border security. No deal. This ties into the above, but even Cameron's call for EU member states to be apply to apply TEMPORARY border closure or quotas on EU migration due to the very real national security risks we face (MI5/MI6 have commented on this) on allowing people to enter the UK freely from parts of the EU, and the fact so many asylum seekers on unparalleled levels are now flowing into the EU, not just from Syria, but all over the Middle East and parts of Africa. So we cannot control our borders in terms of national emergency, we cannot depot or extradite terrorists still, and we have a huge problem on the French-UK border looming with 1,000's of illegal asylum seekers amassing intent on entering the UK illegally).
3) Reforms on the future of EU: No deal. The EU is inflexible on the key issues and mandate they're pursuing regarding creating a single federal super-state model. They tell us we should use the European Parliament. We're just one tiny voice there and have no chance of getting any reforms. The Franco-German (and their cronies) dominated EU Parliament do not take the UK seriously. We're marginalized and it's pretty clear we cannot reform the EU as members.
There is no doubt, that leaving the EU carries uncertainties for the UK and challenges ahead. However, that should not be a reason for not leaving it. The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and so if much smaller countries such as Norway and Switzerland can negotiate trade deals with the EU and survive outside it, I'm pretty sure we can too. And much our trade is with America and elsewhere. The emerging and developing country markets such as India, China and South America are where the UK should now be looking to build good export trade relations. And even the Commonwealth (53 countries, over 2 billion people) is a huge opportunity for international trade and development we're just ignoring, an incredible landmass, an abundance of labour and natural resources, massive growth potential for UK firms. We are not dependent on the EU, and neither would (or should) leaving the EU affect our trade with the EU. There is no reason we can't negotiate our own trade deals with every country or regional trade blocs (and if we don't like the EU's terms, just negotiate with individual countries and go around it).
Last edited:
