The living standards we've enjoyed since we joined the EU, that's just one of the benefits of membership.
Most of our population have enjoyed a far higher standard of living since than we enjoyed prior to 1973.
As I pointed out earlier, back in the 1950s and 1960s, our homes were bare compared to today, very few owned cars, few had ever flown, overseas holidays in the sun were solely the province of the wealthy and pensions were a pittance.
Many of those things changed due to the EU membership benefits, pensions being a perfect example. Our governments were increasingly shamed by the stark contrast between our old age pension and those in the EU countries which were often between two and three times ours. They were eventually compelled to improve them, despite which we still lag behind our partners in the main EU countries.
Remember the huge fuss over school meals? 37 pence per pupil per day in the UK, £2.50 in Germany and France and £4 per day for Italian school pupils! Once again we were shamed into doing better for our kids, yet still we are far behind.
The conclusion is inescapable, under the UK government we are treated poorly, perhaps unsurprising since we are subjects. Under EU influence we are treated far better, more like their populations who are citizens, not subjects. UK governments prefer to buy missile submarines, aircaft carriers and other non-defensive attack ships rather than treat their populations decently.
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Hi Flecc, great thread. I had to reposte!
The living standards we've enjoyed since we joined the EU, that's just one of the benefits of membership.
Disagree, UK growth was above 7% pa at the time we joined. Bearing in mind your stance that EU economic policy has helped us, how come the very same policies have bankrupted Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal’s economies, and it’ still getting worse. How can financial incompetence and endless buying of one’s own debt be a sound basis for growth?
Most of our population have enjoyed a far higher standard of living since than we enjoyed prior to 1973.
As have the rest of the western world, brought about largely by increased world trade and scientific endeavour. Are you able to cite any specific ruling from the EU that has directly affected this increased standard of living?
As I pointed out earlier, back in the 1950s and 1960s, our homes were bare compared to today, very few owned cars, few had ever flown, overseas holidays in the sun were solely the province of the wealthy and pensions were a pittance.
In 1950, we were barely 12 years out of the Second World War. We still had a massive war debt to pay, and the UK was still recovering from the infrastructure damage sustained in conflict. It seems quite unremarkable to suggest life was a little sparce in household furnishing standards. I can’t see any way that the increase in living standards since has come about due to EU economic influences!!
Your comment assumes that whilst we were in the doldrums, the rest of Europe were enjoying all these things. I think they were way behind us. I would suggest that a dramatic improvement in the efficiencies of air travel has been the biggest game changer apropos foreign holidays. Yes we do have washer/dryers, microwaves et al. Are you suggesting these would not have come about without the EU? What have the EU done that would facilitate increased car ownership, or perhaps brought about the concept of a modern fitted kitchen? Nothing whatsoever to my mind!
Many of those things changed due to the EU membership benefits, pensions being a perfect example. Our governments were increasingly shamed by the stark contrast between our old age pension and those in the EU countries which were often between two and three times ours. They were eventually compelled to improve them, despite which we still lag behind our partners in the main EU countries.
No they didn’t. I don’t believe any politician understands the concept of “Shame”. These changes to pension entitlement have been motivated by electoral greed and very little else. I spent 20 years in the pension industry, and whilst many EU regulations were imposed on us, none of them, as I recall, made any endeavour to seek parity of pensions across EU states. As you mention, there are still huge differences in pensions. As such, if this were an EU initiative, it has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
Remember the huge fuss over school meals? 37 pence per pupil per day in the UK, £2.50 in Germany and France and £4 per day for Italian school pupils! Once again we were shamed into doing better for our kids, yet still we are far behind.
Don’t know on this one, but it would seem a laudable aspiration for the EU to secure on our behalf. But I don’t think that’s worth £50 million a day.
The conclusion is inescapable, under the UK government we are treated poorly, perhaps unsurprising since we are subjects. Under EU influence we are treated far better, more like their populations who are citizens, not subjects. UK governments prefer to buy missile submarines, aircraft carriers and other non-defensive attack ships rather than treat their populations decently.
Your conclusion is escapable. Under the UK government we are not treated ideally, and sometimes very badly, perhaps unsurprising since we are, The Electorate. Nonetheless, we have been treated probably more democratically than any other regime I know. It is not ideal, but can you imagine how it might be if we had no means to remove any failing government?
Apropos a” non-defensive attack ship”. Without any means of attack, how is our Navy to defend us? Harsh language!! Perhaps the EU could have another meeting about it.
Sorry for the rant, but I think it is a good thing that folk like us are able to debate such an important topic. After all, Flecc started this thread! I’ve got to go and put my battery on charge now, ready for a ride to the pub.
New year felicitations to you all.
