L1e-A testing requirements

[flecc]

Has the L1e-a put an end to registering new cycle motors/motorized bicycles. Surely these types of bikes go over 16 mph,have bicycle tyres and in 2018 the engines will need to be controlled by pedaling.I suppose if you want to build a new one in 2018 it will need e/dot rated tyres,diping head light,2 mirrors,indicators and go through as a L1e-b.

Exactly as you say, L1e-B, unless the continuous power conforms to the L1e-A limit, the power cuts when pedalling stops and it's limited to 15.5 mph assist speed. It would be possible to arrange those, but hardly worth the effort when electric power is so much more convenient and it's low speed torque much better.
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[shemozzle999]

EU seems to be dragging their heels over the release into the public domain of the draft agenda for next Thursday's meeting (14th April) where they are looking to rubber stamp the outstanding delegated regulations for their timetabled release in August 2016.

 

[shemozzle999]

It looks like our PM's delayed transparency tactics are being adopted by the EU I assume they will attract the same negative results.

 

[shemozzle999]

No news on Thurday's meeting as the MCWG did not lodge any information in the library - strange - as advisers to the Commission I wonder if they don't agree with the Commission's transparency policy:


Transparency Portal

The European Union's activities today affect millions of European citizens' lives. The decisions affecting them must be taken as openly as possible.

As a European citizen, you have a right to know how the European institutions are preparing these decisions, who participates in preparing them, who receives funding from the EU budget, and what documents are held or produced to prepare and adopt the legal acts. You also have a right to access those documents, and make your views known, either directly, or indirectly, through intermediaries that represent you.

This webpage is designed to be your window on this world, giving you direct access to information that will help you to be better informed and better prepared to follow and participate in the EU decision-making process, to enjoy your rights and to play your role as a European citizen to the full.

 

[flecc]

Here's the link to the Transparency Portal.
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[shemozzle999]

flecc, the link was, after a bit of searching, my initial gateway to the MCWG site and knew that my postings were allowed after reading the statement and always checking that any documents I posted had a public security rating.

I was particularly drawn the the to highlighted part of the statement and how, I think, it is ironically at the core of the argument for the inclusion of an independent throttle:

Transparency Portal

The European Union's activities today affect millions of European citizens' lives. The decisions affecting them must be taken as openly as possible.

As a European citizen, you have a right to know how the European institutions are preparing these decisions, who participates in preparing them, who receives funding from the EU budget, and what documents are held or produced to prepare and adopt the legal acts. You also have a right to access those documents, and make your views known, either directly, or indirectly, through intermediaries that represent you.

This webpage is designed to be your window on this world, giving you direct access to information that will help you to be better informed and better prepared to follow and participate in the EU decision-making process, to enjoy your rights and to play your role as a European citizen to the full.

 

[shemozzle999]

MCWG site now showing a meeting for 11th May 2016 - currently no documents posted in the library - assume the 14th April 2016 was cancelled or this was the outcome of it.

 

[shemozzle999]

Agenda for 11 May meeting:

1
EUROPEAN COMMISSION
Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs DIRECTORATE-GENERAL
Industrial Transformation and Advanced Value Chains
Automotive and Mobility Industries
Brussels, 22 April 2016
C4 (2015)
Draft agenda
of the meeting of the
Working Group on MCWG L-Category vehicles
----------------------------------------------
Brussels, 11 May 2016, 14.30 h.
* * *
Centre Albert Borschette
(room: AB 2A)
36, Rue Froissart - Brussels
For budgetary reasons, hard copies of working documents distributed by e-mail prior to the meeting will no longer be
made available in the meeting room. Documents can also be downloaded from the following web-site:
https://circabc.europa.eu/w/browse/dbcc50f8-b39a-446d-8153-3ca1f1e48996
(1) Approval of the draft agenda.
(2) Approval of the draft minutes of the MCWG meeting of 15 December 2015.
(3) Policy studies:
(a) Euro 5 environmental effect study;
(b) Study to enhance UN Regulation Nos 9, 63 and 92 with respect to sound test
requirements;
(4) Guidance classification of powered cycles in the scope of type-approval legislation.
(5) Update on the revision of type-approval legislation of L-category vehicles;
(6) Status work of UNECE informal working group on environmental and propulsion
performance requirements for L-category vehicles (L-EPPR):
(a) State of play
(b) Next steps.
(7) Any other business.

 

[shemozzle999]

Commissioner's presentation added to the documents of the meeting on the 13 May 16 showing last minute changes and revised timetable for the amended delegated regulations - follow link above to view.

Very interesting reading - still no compulsory safety provision for a brake activated/instant motor cut off should the electronics fail and provide full power, I would have thought this would have been a priority given the extra power and speed available, it has never been tabled in any of the discussions.

I suppose it is all too easy to be sidetracked by political/commercial principles and forget what the original aims of the regulation amendments were supposed to achieve.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Very interesting reading - still no compulsory safety provision for a brake activated/instant motor cut off should the electronics fail and provide full power, I would have thought this would have been a priority given the extra power and speed available, it has never been tabled in any of the discussions.

The only way of that ever happening is a mechanical throttle sticking open. If electronics fail you lose power there is no way a short can provide WOT.

 

[Alan Quay]

The only way of that ever happening is a mechanical throttle sticking open. If electronics fail you lose power there is no way a short can provide WOT.

Not quite. When hall throttles fail, they can do so giving full signal. (I had one go like this so I know for sure).

Under normal circumstances the brakes will beat the motor, so for most people it's not a safety issue, more about protection of the motor.

I can imagine that someone with weak hands/poor brakes may not be able to overcome the motor completely or in good time. They may even engage panic mode.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[anotherkiwi]

Sounds like a good reason to not mount a throttle...

When I see the brakes mounted to those cheap 600€ supermarket pedelecs it scares me.

 

[flecc]

Not quite. When hall throttles fail, they can do so giving full signal. (I had one go like this so I know for sure).

But pedelecs can't legally have fully independent throttles enabling full assist speed, so not something to consider in respect of EPACs.

Given the huge numbers of pedelecs in use in the EU and the fact they almost all have no brake cutouts, I can't see that there's an issue. If that had been causing any accidents, the Netherlands and Germany would certainly have known about it by now, with them currently adding over 800,000 a year to their existing pedelecs. Goodness knows how many millions of pedelecs they have on the road now.
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[shemozzle999]

Sounds like a good reason to not mount a throttle...

When I see the brakes mounted to those cheap 600€ supermarket pedelecs it scares me.

The thread is about L1e-A powered cycles not pedelecs but equally applies to any electronic speed controlling device - electronic devices have a shelf life.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Petrol powered mopeds don't have motor cut-off switches, they have throttles that work and clutches that work, I have never heard of an accident caused by stuck throttle on a moped. And boy do they often use WOT!

 

[Alan Quay]

Petrol powered mopeds don't have motor cut-off switches, they have throttles that work and clutches that work, I have never heard of an accident caused by stuck throttle on a moped. And boy do they often use WOT!

All petrol powered mopeds I have seen use a mechanical throttle. It's possible that it could get stuck open, but I guess twisting it back would solve the immediate issue, or disengaging clutch/gearbox. I've never personally had it happen.

Hall throttles, (as used on every electric bike I've ever seen with a throttle) often fail WOT.




Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[shemozzle999]

Petrol powered mopeds don't have motor cut-off switches, they have throttles that work and clutches that work, I have never heard of an accident caused by stuck throttle on a moped. And boy do they often use WOT!

Google "throttle recall" for my response - as there are too many examples to list.

 

[the_killjoy]

The nearest I've had to a stuck motorcycle throttle is bump starting an old James, tripping over still holding onto the throttle and therefore twisting it fully open and being unable to let go ...

 

[shemozzle999]

From the changes in the Commissioner's presentation it appears to allow use of throttle on L1e-A:

Amendments to delegated acts (RVCR, RVFSR and REPPR)

• L1e-A vehicles are defined as vehicles designed to pedal equipped with an auxiliary propulsion with the primary aim to aid pedalling
.
• It is, therefore, relevant to quantify the maximum assistance ratio. This information is useful for the end user of the vehicle to identify its possible use depending on the type of power assistance:

i. based on torque measurement (maximum assistance factor),

ii. by reaction to pedals' movement (assistance factor infinite), or

iii. through a power modulator (throttle).

iv. a combination of these solutions
.
•The text is amended to allow its applicability to vehicles fitted with assistance modulators

also clarification for speed pedelecs:

Amendments to delegated acts (RVCR, RVFSR and REPPR)

•REPPR Annex X Appendix 4 as requested by AVERE:

Agreed to delete some requirements relevant only to the proposal of definition of speed EPAC, which finally was not integrated in the text:

Cycle with a power controlled pedal assistance which is equipped with one or more auxiliary electric motor(s), having a total maximum continuous rated motor power of (500W) and a maximum power of not more than 1.6 x continuous rated motor power, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 45 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling
.
The motor power is defined as the mechanical output power at the shaft of the motor unit.

These amendments now go through a 2 month objection period and if no objections are made they will be put into force on 16 September 2016 after which time manufacturers can then decide whether or not to make these type of vehicles.

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[Kudoscycles]

Most of the customers who are considering L1e-A want a limit above 25 kph,the motor power would allow them to achieve above that limit.
So,the category is not attractive to most and they would prefer to be illegal,especially as it limits them to road use only and need to wear a helmet.
I don't see that attractive to even an e-moped,if I was considering such a machine I would want to go faster and therefore this category seems somewhat redundant.
KudosDave