L1e-A testing requirements

[shemozzle999]

I believe the Industry bodies are fighting over the ownership of the throttle for purely commercial reasons creating confusion for the Commission.
Its addition to the exemption ruling would have no adverse safety implications and therefore should be included in the 2.h exemption giving all ordinary citizens access to the technology and leave the industry to fight over the new higher power vehicles classes.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Note that full speed throttles are not allowed on s-pedelecs it would seem to follow that full speed throttles should not be allowed on pedelecs. So the whole thing will swing around "take off" assist throttles which will probably be limited to 6 kph on pedelecs.

Throttles that allow walk assist are permitted but as they are just more junk on the handlebar and because there is already a button on the controller to do that there is no need.

 

[flecc]

Note that full speed throttles are not allowed on s-pedelecs it would seem to follow that full speed throttles should not be allowed on pedelecs.

Not really the same thing to compare though. Full throttle on an S pedelec uses up to 500 watts rating to take the machine to 28 mph (45kph).

Full throttle on a pedelec uses only 250 watts rating to accelerate more slowly to a maximum of 15.5 mph (25kph). Allowing full throttle on these is very nearly the same as the current 12 mph allowance on S pedelecs.

Very different cases, the first not at all common bicycle performance, while the second is.
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[shemozzle999]

Latest DfT Information Sheet issued for EAPC's (Noevember 2015):

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482015/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

 

[shemozzle999]

Surprised at who won the tender, I wonder what they will conclude:

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:22103-2015:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=1

 

[flecc]

Surprised at who won the tender, I wonder what they will conclude:

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:22103-2015:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=1

Loughborough University!

What a surprise, right on 50cycles doorstep, the agents for German Kalkhoff pedelecs.

They do specialise in this area though, Link
,

 

[shemozzle999]

Link to Member States Expert meeting on 21st January 2016 regarding the delegated regulations time tables, amendments and outstanding issues:

Meetings:

https://circabc.europa.eu/faces/jsp/extension/wai/navigation/container.jsp?FormPrincipal:_idcl=FormPrincipal:_id4&FormPrincipal_SUBMIT=1&id=041d87f2-c910-45a3-8f99-a91d77cdf738&javax.faces.ViewState=rO0ABXVyABNbTGphdmEubGFuZy5PYmplY3Q7kM5YnxBzKWwCAAB4cAAAAAN0AAE5cHQAKy9qc3AvZXh0ZW5zaW9uL3dhaS9uYXZpZ2F0aW9uL2NvbnRhaW5lci5qc3A=

Commission Presentation:

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/fca58e2e-051c-40f4-8d38-2527768841e2/4_5_2016_01_28_MSEG_L_Category_vehicles_EC.pdf

 

[flecc]

Thanks Shemozzle, more complexity!

Two things struck me. First that completion isn't until March 2018 now. Second, that once again the UK was asking for worse conditions, this time in wanting larger number plates, fortunately refused. Our administrators really are our worst enemies at times.
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[shemozzle999]

The Commission has other priorities to consider apart from a domestic solution it is also actively pursuing a global standard, thus the constant delays at fixing a final position.

I wonder how many years before we will all be driving on the rhs of the road.

 

[flecc]

I wonder how many years before we will all be driving on the rhs of the road.

I think that would be a very tough target for them to achieve though, there's 75 countries which drive on the left, including many large and/or high population ones. Personally I think it's the correct side and it's the R/H drive ones that should change. Here's those that drive on the left:

1. Anguilla
2. Antigua and Barbuda
3. Australia
4. Bahamas
5. Bangladesh
6. Barbados
7. Bermuda
8. Bhutan
9. Botswana
10. Brunei
11. Cayman Islands
12. Christmas Island (Australia)
13. Cook Islands
14. Cyprus
15. Dominica
16. East Timor
17. Falkland Islands
18. Fiji
19. Grenada
20. Guernsey (Channel Islands)
21. Guyana
22. Hong Kong
23. India
24. Indonesia
25. Ireland
26. Isle of Man
27. Jamaica
28. Japan
29. Jersey (Channel Islands)
30. Kenya
31. Kiribati
32. Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)
33. Lesotho
34. Macau
35. Malawi
36. Malaysia
37. Maldives
38. Malta
39. Mauritius
40. Montserrat
41. Mozambique
42. Namibia
43. Nauru
44. Nepal
45. New Zealand
46. Niue
47. Norfolk Island (Australia)
48. Pakistan
49. Papua New Guinea
50. Pitcairn Islands (Britain)
51. Saint Helena
52. Saint Kitts and Nevis
53. Saint Lucia
54. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
55. Samoa
56. Seychelles
57. Singapore
58. Solomon Islands
59. South Africa
60. Sri Lanka
61. Suriname
62. Swaziland
63. Tanzania
64. Thailand
65. Tokelau (New Zealand)
66. Tonga
67. Trinidad and Tobago
68. Turks and Caicos Islands
69. Tuvalu
70. Uganda
71. United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)
72. Virgin Islands (British)
73. Virgin Islands (US)
74. Zambia
75. Zimbabwe
.

 

[shemozzle999]

I think we would be out voted even if we were able to get the 14 member state red card ruling.

 

[anotherkiwi]

On an electric bicycle it doesn't make much difference - drivers can't see you/refuse priority whichever side you are on.

Being right handed I prefer changing gears with my right hand. I have many 10's of thousands of miles driving on the left and 100's of thousands of kilometres driving on the right.

 

[flecc]

I think we would be out voted even if we were able to get the 14 member state red card ruling.

The majority being in the wrong is not unusual though, as the outcome of our general elections often shows!
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[flecc]

On an electric bicycle it doesn't make much difference - drivers can't see you/refuse priority whichever side you are on.

Maybe we should follow China. From Wikipedia:

Except for a brief period during the Cultural Revolution (1966–1976) when the government encouraged people to drive on the left (for symbolic/ideological reasons), the convention has been to drive on the right. In practice, however, driving to the left into oncoming traffic is not uncommon in China, nor is it as stigmatised and penalised as it is in other countries. This is especially true of bicyclists, electric bicycles, and motorcycles who—unless physically prevented by barriers—are almost equally likely to be found riding on the right, left or straight down the middle of lanes of traffic.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

Minutes of December 2015 meeting and Draft Guidance on classification of powered cycles in the scope of Regulation (EU) No 168/2013:

2015_12_15_MCWG_L_Cat_v2.pdf

4_2015_12_15 Classification_powered_cycles_v2.pdf

 

[shemozzle999]

Current state of play:

If you look at the Guidance flowchart linked to above it states no full throttle for L1e-A unless the peddles are turning, throttle only up to 6kph start assist allowed when not turning (justified under the exception in article 2 (2a) of the regulation 168/2013:

2. This Regulation does not apply to the following vehicles:
(a) vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6 km/h;

By imposing this restriction (although the vehicles we are talking about have a maximum design speed above 6kph?????) it is basically the nail in the coffin for disadvantaged riders giving them no access to full throttle powered cycles (who would want to buy one if you cannot have full control of the extra motor power available) their only option a L1e-B full moped classification vehicle but only allowed on road .

Note from the minutes:

The EC representative presented the second draft of the guidance document containing 2 minor changes that the EC had issued in order to improve clarity on the classification of powered cycles falling in the scope of type-approval legislation.

The Avere representative commented that part of the sentence in one of the examples reading ´...and both conditions with or without pedalling´ should be revised into ´...and if pedalling´.

The ACEM representative pointed out that industry associations ACEM and Conebi had submitted their position paper addressing the issues of assistance factor 4 and powered cycles equipped with an accelerator handle. There is a need to further discuss these subjects in detail at the expert level in a next quadrilateral meeting.

The UK representative welcomed the guidance flow chart to classify powered cycles and deemed it very useful. In principle the UK agrees with the whole document.
(United Kingdom representative - Mike Lowe)

Madam Chair concluded that a next quadrilateral meeting would be organised with interested stakeholders and invited participants to provide comments before 26 Feb 16. The objective was to finalise discussions and adopt the guidance document in the next MCWG meeting.


Member State Experts Meeting on L - category vehicles 28 January 2016

Amendments Regulation on administrative requirements (REPPR)

PENDING ISSUES • Appendix 4 of Annex X (measuring method of the maximum continuous rated power, switch - off distance and maximum assistance factor of an L1e category vehicle designed to pedal):

Some comments from AVERE on electric bicycles are still pending to be resolved and will be finalised on a bilateral basis.

Amendments Regulation on administrative requirements (RVFSR)

PENDING ISSUES • Annex II (audible warning):

Some comments from AVERE on electric bicycles are still pending to be resolved and will be finalised on a bilateral basis.

UK interaction:

Amendments Regulation on administrative requirements (RVCR)

• Annex XIV on Rear Registration:

UK request to state in the text that Member States would be allowed
to require the fitment of a registration plate that is in fact bigger than
the space actually required on the vehicle was not deemed acceptable.


Awaiting the publishing of the agenda of the next meeting:

Next MCWG meeting: 14 Apr 16

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[flecc]

Thanks Shemozzle. I'd read though the minutes and didn't comment since it was rather depressing with respect to throttles. We just seem to be up against a brick wall.
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[craiggor]

Minutes of December 2015 meeting and Draft Guidance on classification of powered cycles in the scope of Regulation (EU) No 168/2013:

2015_12_15_MCWG_L_Cat_v2.pdf

4_2015_12_15 Classification_powered_cycles_v2.pdf

In the above file it says a L1e-a can have a internal combustion engine.How can a internal combustion engine be controlled by a pedelec sensor ? Some sort of fly by wire throttle ? Can a L1e-a pass a M.S.V.A with a throttle until 2018 ?

 

[flecc]

Can a L1e-a pass a M.S.V.A with a throttle until 2018 ?

In a sense yes, since the Vehicle Inspectorate are still using the old Low Powered Moped type approval rules until the new L1e type approval laws are in place. They could have throttles, but since no-one made one, no method of controlling the assist speed limit had evolved for those, electric or i.c., nor was any pedelec sensing necessary.

I doubt anyone will make them for L1e-A either.
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[craiggor]

Has the L1e-a put an end to registering new cycle motors/motorized bicycles.

Surely these types of bikes go over 16 mph,have bicycle tyres and in 2018 the engines will need to be controlled by pedaling.I suppose if you want to build a new one in 2018 it will need e/dot rated tyres,diping head light,2 mirrors,indicators and go through as a L1e-b.