L1e-A testing requirements

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
That's under EU control and type approval regulations for L1e-A and L1e-B are still being finalised by them.

The original draft shows some easements of the requirements for L1e-A, but some of these are bound to change. For example the draft regulation states that a number plate space is not necessary for L1e-A. That's never going to meet all 28 national requirements, least of all the UK's.
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I believe there has been too much emphasis given to commercial matters when drafting these new Regulations and it is in my opinion not proportional.

The quality and safety concerns raised back in 2002 with the old repealed regulations, I think, no longer apply but unfortunately they are kept to the forefront of the debate by pressure from internal market manufacturers and associations, even in the debate in 2011, the day before the EP/EC vote on 168/2013, the independent mediator aired these views:

Wim van de Camp, rapporteur. – (NL) Good evening Mr Tajani and all the people who are helping you.

Mr President, Commissioner, we have here a difficult technical and lengthy subject to address, which is very important for the internal market. It concerns not only technical standards for two-wheeled vehicles but certainly also surveillance.

To start with the first topic, technical standards: in the past two years we have had detailed discussions on five points, and those are, at the same time, the subjects of this Regulation. Firstly, the classification of the vehicles is to be made clearer. I have discussed ATVs at length with Mr Panzeri, and we have found a neat solution. We had a very in-depth discussion of the ABS and CBS braking systems on powered two-wheelers, and the braking systems must make for greater safety. For small scooters, we have agreed that there will be further research as to whether that is actually effective. We have also looked at the emission standards for scooters, since they are fairly polluting, especially in urban areas. We have looked at durability mileages: is a scooter still just as clean after five years as after the first year? We also looked at the vehicle lighting.

However, Mr President, it is also very important if we are to keep cheap goods from China, India and Korea that are unsafe out of the EU. That is not protectionism, it is simply protecting quality for our citizens.

Before I continue, I should like once again to thank all those who took part in the consultation, especially the Danish Presidency which made an important contribution, but also, of course, the Council and the Commission, for what we have all achieved.

Another couple of questions for the Commissioner. Firstly, the negotiations on delegated and implementing acts. We have agreed that the industry is being allowed enough time to introduce this new Regulation, but if the consultation on delegated and implementing acts takes too long, there is no lead time left. Therefore I would like an assurance from the Commissioner that the Commission is making progress with the implementing and delegated acts.

A second point, Mr President, concerns emission standards and, in particular, Euro 5 in 2016. The Commission is to investigate this, and the aim is that we look not just at pollution but also at costs and also, here again, at lead time.

In the past few days, the position with electrical bicycles has become somewhat unclear. Electrical bicycles do not come under this Directive. They are covered only by the Machinery Directive, 250 watts and maximum speed 25 km. I would like to keep it at that, because more powerful electrical bicycles just lead to serious accidents. If electrical bicycle manufacturers want something different, they can still be in this Directive.

Finally, Mr President, the contact with English motorcyclists. English motorcyclists have been following what we do with a very critical eye, and rightly so. It is good for democracy for English motorcyclists to keep a critical eye on us. Modification is fine, tuning up is not. English motorcyclists also have to be able to understand that.

He later made his final comment at the debate:

Wim van de Camp, rapporteur. − (NL) Mr President, firstly I thank the Commissioner for the answers and also my colleagues, nearly all of whom are now going home, for the compliments and the support I have received.

I have listened carefully to the Commissioner. He says he will keep a close watch on the lead time for the industry and that the delegated and implementing acts will not go on for too long, so that the industry will have enough time to implement the new Regulation. He has not explicitly come back to the research into the ABS on small scooters and the research for Euro 5, which is to come in 2016. I assume, however, that that is also noted and that it is being taken into account.

I have one more question, but that must be an observation in view of this debate. Will the communication on this Regulation become clear? We are, in fact, simplifying enormously, we are making maintenance and repair information very accessible. I think it is good for the EU to provide good information on that point.

I would say to Mr Bufton that, if he had taken part in the debate earlier, he would have been able to exert an influence on the whole issue. However, it is the first time I have seen him this evening and, of course, that is a real shame. One more thing: I have actually bought a new BMW motorbike for next year. I think that is good for the European industry, rather than a Japanese bike.

This, I think, is the predominant reason behind the the banning of throttles it has nothing to do with safety or the environment and Fundamental Rights were never discussed as far as I can see.

This is why, I think, UK sellers of these EU perceived imported low quality, unsafe bicycles from China, Japan, India and Korea now have these unfair and unjust restrictions placed on them.

You dealers need to get together and push the UK government to challenge these new regulations.
 
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craiggor

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 9, 2015
498
171
Don't think Wim Van Decamp has managed to stop English motorcyclist's from tuning there bikes yet.They have managed to get daytime driving lights brought in.This is something I don't agree with,when I use them I seem get more drivers pulling out in front of me.I can only think this is due to them taking a quick glance seeing the light and thinking, oh he has flashed me it's OK to pull out.
Remember first they came for the pedelecers,I was not a pedelecer so I did nothing.Then they came for the mopeds I didn't have a funky moped so I did nothing.I don't think the dealers and manufactures are bothered about the throttle.You can't do a true range test between bikes with out one.

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk
 

the_killjoy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 26, 2008
822
226
The problem I have with the daytime running lights is that when cars go over speed bumps, of which there are a lot round here, it looks like cars are flashing you.
 
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shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
Thanks Shemozzle, that's very revealing.
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I think Michael Gove sums it up well in the Guardian:

“It is time that liberals everywhere saw the EU for what it is: essentially a stitch-up between the very biggest corporations, their lobbyists and the commission to frame regulation in such a way as to keep out the competition, especially … from start-ups and innovators.”
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Finland ready for new L1e-a vehicles with a relaxed view to legal user restrictions:

http://www.scouter.fi/
Nice idea, but already the DfT have wrecked our prospects of having the same. There as in some other EU countries, no licence needed. Here they've introduced both category AM and category Q driving licences covering everything small and light except pedelecs.

Link
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craiggor

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 9, 2015
498
171
Nice idea, but already the DfT have wrecked our prospects of having the same. There as in some other EU countries, no licence needed. Here they've introduced both category AM and category Q driving licences covering everything small and light except pedelecs.

Link
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None of those licence's cover a L1e-a 15.5 mph.They all say over 15.5 mph.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
None of those licence's cover a L1e-a 15.5 mph.They all say over 15.5 mph.
No they don't, look again. Category Q is expressly for up to 15.5 mph, can be petrol or electric.

That's the DfT spoiler for these to be introduced here.
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craiggor

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 9, 2015
498
171
No they don't, look again. Category Q is expressly for up to 15.5 mph, can be petrol or electric.

That's the DfT spoiler for these to be introduced here.
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I really should stop speed reading these things.L1e-a's sound so much like a EAPC's, that at any time the government could say that's it you have had your fun you need a licence and reg.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
I really should stop speed reading these things.L1e-a's sound so much like a EAPC's, that at any time the government could say that's it you have had your fun you need a licence and reg.
While we are still in the EU we're safe from that final change which could never happen there. But once out all bets are off.
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shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
Appears from the minutes of the September meeting the Commission are applying delay tactics on the Avere request for factor 4 study update - moves it on the agenda to AOB then states this:

AVERE requested an update regarding the status of the study on factor 4 on electric bicycles
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Madam Chair indicated that this study hasn't yet been launched but it remains on the Commission's planning

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/1e44682d-1877-4bb5-8dcd-402e35125938/MCWG meeting 26092017 minutes_draft_final.pdf
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Looking at French rules for L1e-A it says (my translation and bold text):

"power over 250 W or speed over 25 km/h"

it will be considered a moped so need to use motorbike helmet and gloves, be registered and have a number plate.

So that just about puts us at the same level as Northern Ireland... Up to 25 km/h wearing a motorbike helmet (and gloves) before motor cut off then pedal until suffocation or strained neck muscles or both to the road legal limit...
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
Looking at French rules for L1e-A it says (my translation and bold text):

"power over 250 W or speed over 25 km/h"

it will be considered a moped so need to use motorbike helmet and gloves, be registered and have a number plate.

So that just about puts us at the same level as Northern Ireland... Up to 25 km/h wearing a motorbike helmet (and gloves) before motor cut off then pedal until suffocation or strained neck muscles or both to the road legal limit...
anotherkiwi here is a summary of the history behind factor 4.

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2016/7/european-commission-confirmed-categorization-speed-e-bikes-10126788

To easily pass the tests it requires a torque based system thus placing an unfair restriction on cadence based systems e.g. Bafang.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Thanks Shemozzle, I like the fact that pedalling inclusion isn't necessary in L1e-A, opening the way for greater disability inclusion.

Although there's no commercial L1e-A bikes type approved yet, I can't see any problem with having home build ones, normal e-bikes with or without pedal drive but with up to 1000 watt motors used up to 15.6 mph. Ideal for low speed cargo bikes, trikes and quads.

Of course we'll still be lumbered with helmets, third party insurance and the driving licence necessity in the UK.
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