KTM Corner

[Kudoscycles]

We have pretty much settled on 2 brands (KTM and Kudos) at the London Electric Bike Company(Hampton Wick) and Kudoscycles(Whitstable). There are advantages of doing a good job of a limited number of brands-
We get to understand those bikes well
We are able to stock the bikes well
We are able to stock spares well.
The price points of both brands covers most customers requirements,the £1699.00 price point of some of the new KTM models are surprisingly competitive.
The latest KTM models are starting to be delivered to both shops in good quantities and sizes,Kudos has stock of every Kudos model and new models(powerful commuter bikes,incl step thru) are due in mid December.
KudosDave

 

[EddiePJ]

Whitstable is a place that I have been meaning to visit. A friend keeps saying how good that the seafood restaurants are there, and each time that hear the name of the place, I now get hungry!

 

[jdallan]

quick question for you KTM owners....

how many of you have third party liability cover for when your on your bike?

All of the guys here have it, but its part of the membership benefits of being a member of British Cycling. We know a few people who've had to take advantage of it, but we've never asked them if it covers eBikes?

Anyone have any experience of this?

Regards
Col

I have my KTM eStyleP and my wife's Freego Eagle included for all risks under my house insurance which also includes legal protection. I've no intention of taking out any other insurance.

Jim

 

[EddiePJ]

I see that KTM have received a brief mention, in making it to the No2 slot in relation to the top 5 fat bikes. 2.12 mins in. The only e-bike to have made the list.

 

[mfj197]

I really cannot understand fat bikes at all. Why, oh why, do they appeal?

 

[EddiePJ]

I can't either, but I suspect that they will do well in the US coastal market.

I saw my first one being ridden at an mtb event this summer, and just thought wtf!

The rider was wearing trainers, cut off jeans and no shirt, so I don't know if that helps explain things a bit further.

 

[Richy]

I like the idea of GPS/satnav integrated into the bike's display but is there any plans to increase the size of the bosch battery? Also do KTM offer s-pedelec bikes for off-road use in this country?

 

[RobF]

I really cannot understand fat bikes at all. Why, oh why, do they appeal?

I spoke to a keen mountain biker who said he was using his fat bike more and more in preference to his other bikes.

They are a bit slow on road/hardpack, but very versatile in other respects.

Not sure about suspension on fat bikes though, the idea is the enormous tyres do that job.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Also do KTM offer s-pedelec bikes for off-road use in this country?

Hi.

We do build and sell s-pedelec's however they are not for offroad use, anymore than they are legal for onroad use in the UK.

They are only for use on private land where there is no public access.

So because of the liability and health and safety law, we'll only sell to a dealer who has full proof that the customer who is buying the bike has access to this type of land and understands the law.

Luckily lots of our dealers and customers have an understanding of motorbikes, so know to treat the s-pedelecs like motocross bikes. ie not road legal, or offroad legal.

Hope that helps.

Tom

 

[Wander]

Hi.

We do build and sell s-pedelec's however they are not for offroad use, anymore than they are legal for onroad use in the UK.

They are only for use on private land where there is no public access.

So because of the liability and health and safety law, we'll only sell to a dealer who has full proof that the customer who is buying the bike has access to this type of land and understands the law.

Luckily lots of our dealers and customers have an understanding of motorbikes, so know to treat the s-pedelecs like motocross bikes. ie not road legal, or offroad legal.

Hope that helps.

Tom

Is this a change of policy in the last 3 weeks then since this was posted:-

Yes, good spot. We're taking it for a very good reason. To promote the fact we make them, but chose not to sell them because at the moment too many customer are choosing to use this kind of bike illegally on the roads.
Ktm make very powerful Offroad motorbikes that can't be used on the roads or bridal ways but those customers seem to respect the law.
For some reason many Ebike riders think they know better, so we're taking the bike to educate our dealers and the public about the implications of its use in the uk.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

yes, a subtle one... because we've had a couple of dealers who do have customers who know the law, understand the law and want an eBike to use on their private land. If we have proof of that we'll sell the bike. So far though, we've not had enough proof, so not actually allowed any to be sold.

But on the whole, there is no change.... we won't sell these bikes or let our dealers sell them on-line or anything like that.

 

[Wander]

yes, a subtle one... because we've had a couple of dealers who do have customers who know the law, understand the law and want an eBike to use on their private land. If we have proof of that we'll sell the bike. So far though, we've not had enough proof, so not actually allowed any to be sold.

But on the whole, there is no change.... we won't sell these bikes or let our dealers sell them on-line or anything like that.

Thanks for clarifying, does seem a little more than a subtle change as this has also been posted recently:-

I know where we stand, and I know where our dealers stand. Thats not what I'm asking. We now make s Class pedelecs, so we can sell them into the UK. What I'm trying to find out is why we're strongly advised not to, but others seem happy to. Am I asking the wrong legal advice, or am I simply the only person to have actually asked before selling these products?

Anyway don't want to re-open that debate.

More interested in what you obtain as 'proof' & how this addresses the strong legal advice that's been previously obtained by your company.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I'll have to leave this for Col to respond to. So we'll have an answer for you in a couple of hours.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi.

Just popping in to answer the specific question asked above. There is a slight tweak to the policy about the s-pedelecs after I had a detailed conversation with KTM (the motorbike side) about how they handle all the bikes they sell that can only be used on private land.

The first thing they said is that in the most part their customers aren't daft enough to use the illegal bikes on the road or in public places offroad. If you were blasting down a canal path on a motocross bike its pretty obviously going to get you in a whole world of trouble for a variety of reasons. However they clearly sell lots of non road legal bikes, and they do it to people they are confident will use them legally.

Our legal advice is clear and we have to have full confidence that the bike will be used safely, and if its being used illegally, it can easily be argued thats not safe. If both us and our dealer can't put their hand on their heart and say they have confidence the customer will use the bike on private land, then we won't sell it.

So in all honesty I don't think we'll sell any in the UK, but there is an option for us to sell them if customers can prove they can use them safely.

This is because of the health and safety liability, not because we're worried about getting prosecuted.

https://www.gov.uk/product-liability-and-safety-law

"If your business supplies products to consumers, you need to make sure the products are safe.

The heaviest responsibility falls on producers, eg the manufacturer of a product. But distributors - such as shops and wholesalers - also have legal responsibilities.

Failing to meet your responsibilities can have serious consequences. You could face legal action with possible fines or even imprisonment. You could also be sued by anyone who has been injured or has suffered damage to personal property as a result of using your product."

The s-pedelecs are not considered safe to be used on the roads and in public places off road. So we have to make sure we're covered.

I hope that clears things up.

What we require as proof, is up to the individual, as to how they show us they can use the bike safely / legally.

Col.

 

[Wander]

That's great Col, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Just to throw a spanner in the works I have heard speed pedelecs may be legal in the UK by the end of the year. If so that will make the forum more boring no endless debates about which bike is legal

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

if they are that would be great for everyone, because there will be a level playing field and we'll all know where we stand, but as its taken years and still 250w isn't clear... I have to say we're a little sceptical of the rumblings that are doing the rounds.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I agree but to even hear it discussed implies it might happen even if it is later rather than sooner.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

well here's hoping their isn't a headline grabbing accident involving a "currently" illegal eBike in the time before they make their decision which could spoil it for everyone.

 

[EddiePJ]

Just to throw a spanner in the works I have heard speed pedelecs may be legal in the UK by the end of the year. If so that will make the forum more boring no endless debates about which bike is legal

If that is the case, then it will probably spell the end of my being able to enter organised public mtb events. I can see the organisers banning e-mtbs altogether because of the obvious risk to pedal mtb users etc. I can then also see legislation being brought in to stop the use of e-mtb's on bridleways etc. A ruling that I would fully understand. S-pedelecs don't do anyone any favours.

As a sole user, I've just potentially been given the nod to ride on the best part of a 1,000 acres of managed forest and rides, and this would in the scheme of things be an ideal place for an s-pedelec. A year ago I would have jumped at the chance, but not anymore as they just don't interest me. I'm quite happy with what I already have speed wise and other wise.