Kit that works with display removed or switched off?

[UphillBattle]

Is there such a thing?

The same medical condition that makes me look for a motor to help me get back on the bike is exacerbated by screens, computers etc so if possible I’d like to avoid having one of the the evil things in my face.

Im looking to convert my old 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara hardtail on the cheap (Rock Shox front suspension). I’m thinking a hub motor at the moment for the low cost as I’m not sure if this Ebike thing will work out for me with my health issues. The journey I’m most interested in is about 4 miles round trip with a few medium inclines nothing extreme. I’m 5’10 and only weigh 9st/53kilos so I don’t need a lot of power though I do need decent acceleration and speed of about 20mph for the busy traffic in my area: my front door opens onto a dual carriageway so I can’t afford to hang about too much!

I’m thinking I could get a cheap hub drive kit now and a low capacity battery and then upgrade in future if this ebike thing is working out and I dare to try longer journeys.

 

[Benjahmin]

You will need a kit with at least an led controller, these only have leds to show battery cgarge state, leds for power level selected and buttons to select power level. It's as simple as it gets. Could be hidden in a saddle bag or handlebar box, though you wouldn't then be able to change power setting whilst riding, not necessarily a deal breaker.
This is the sort of thing:

LED810 Meter Panel 24V for KU65/95/125 controller Voltage 24V

24V LED battery level meter panel for KU65, KU95, KU125 controller

bmsbattery.com

Buy a 250w motor and it will be road legal. Depending on the kit, setting to 20mph may be possible, but ilegal.
Beware of cheap ebay kits. A lot are direct drive motors that are fine for flat high speed but crap on hills. They also tend to eat batteries, particularly the cheap no name ones that they come with.
For more specific help we're going to need to know what the bike is.

 

[Nealh]

The main issue is without a display of some sort you loose the PAS levels which means you are stuck with one assist level which will likely be low power with no option to select more power if needed for inclines. To use with out a display means shorts wiring together correctly.
As mentioned you can place a display in a bag somewhere but then you still need to access it to increase power.
An lcd gives useful info like speed, odo, distance and battery charge state.

 

[UphillBattle]

You will need a kit with at least an led controller, these only have leds to show battery cgarge state, leds for power level selected and buttons to select power level. It's as simple as it gets. Could be hidden in a saddle bag or handlebar box, though you wouldn't then be able to change power setting whilst riding, not necessarily a deal breaker.
This is the sort of thing:

LED810 Meter Panel 24V for KU65/95/125 controller Voltage 24V

24V LED battery level meter panel for KU65, KU95, KU125 controller

bmsbattery.com

Buy a 250w motor and it will be road legal. Depending on the kit, setting to 20mph may be possible, but ilegal.
Beware of cheap ebay kits. A lot are direct drive motors that are fine for flat high speed but crap on hills. They also tend to eat batteries, particularly the cheap no name ones that they come with.
For more specific help we're going to need to know what the bike is.

Yes I’ve seen that kind of little controller on a cheap prebuilt, that would be fine. I could probably mount that and be ok, if not then I could hide it away somewhere, problem solved. Could I use that with any popular system?

That’s the bike, a Gary Fisher 2001 hardtail: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/SearchListingDetail.aspx?id=35656&make=682&model=41023

I’m not too fussed about a road-legal motor as I’m going to have to de#restrict anyway to achieve my target speed of 20mph. I used to ride these intersections when I was fit and able to sprint at 20mph and that was just enough to make lane changes etc without being caught by traffic.

For the same reason I need a pedal assist that is reliable and responsive and not just a thumb throttle. There’s a large, busy roundabout on a nasty uphill where I have to indicate and change lane while maintaining speed so I need my hands free. If the ebike can make this roundabout stress free it will be doing better than my legs were even when they were strong.

 

[UphillBattle]

The main issue is without a display of some sort you loose the PAS levels which means you are stuck with one assist level which will likely be low power with no option to select more power if needed for inclines. To use with out a display means shorts wiring together correctly.
As mentioned you can place a display in a bag somewhere but then you still need to access it to increase power.
An lcd gives useful info like speed, odo, distance and battery charge state.

The display suggested above is pretty low tech, my nervous system usually gets on with these screenless, light-based things ok so I can go with that and have access to power level and battery status. If I went for a full display I’d probably be ok for short rides but it would be an issue for anything over a half hour so I’d end up avoiding longer rides.

 

[Woosh]

Is there such a thing?

The same medical condition that makes me look for a motor to help me get back on the bike is exacerbated by screens, computers etc so if possible I’d like to avoid having one of the the evil things in my face.

Im looking to convert my old 2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara hardtail on the cheap (Rock Shox front suspension). I’m thinking a hub motor at the moment for the low cost as I’m not sure if this Ebike thing will work out for me with my health issues. The journey I’m most interested in is about 4 miles round trip with a few medium inclines nothing extreme. I’m 5’10 and only weigh 9st/53kilos so I don’t need a lot of power though I do need decent acceleration and speed of about 20mph for the busy traffic in my area: my front door opens onto a dual carriageway so I can’t afford to hang about too much!

I’m thinking I could get a cheap hub drive kit now and a low capacity battery and then upgrade in future if this ebike thing is working out and I dare to try longer journeys.

simplicity is not cheap. You will need a torque sensor to control the power delivery.
This bike does not have an LCD:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2019/karoo/karoo2.jpg

You can buy a kit that does the same but the torque sensor kit with 13AH battery costs about £499-£549 depending on motorwheel and LCD options.

 

[UphillBattle]

simplicity is not cheap. You will need a torque sensor to control the power delivery.
This bike does not have an LCD:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2019/karoo/karoo2.jpg

You can buy a kit that does the same but the torque sensor kit with 13AH battery costs about £499-£549 depending on motorwheel and LCD options.

Do I need a torque sensor if I use the low tech display suggested by @Benjahmin ?

 

[Benjahmin]

I don't think so. PAS will give you power (at level set) as long as you are rotating the peddles. A twist or thumb throttle will give you quick get away from lights or on hills.
The bike looks like an easy one. Check the rear dropouts, if they are in the region of 130 - 140mm then this motor wiil be good.

Q128C-135mm 500W Rear Driving EBike Hub Motor Wheel RPM 201 Voltage 36V

Q128C-135mm 500W Rear Driving V-brake, rim-brake, Disc-Brake compatible E-Bike Hub Motor Wheel. Waterproof hall sensor connector.

bmsbattery.com

It's a 500w one so not legal in the UK - but I think you're in the U.S., is that right? You'd need to specify voltage and wheel size when you order. Same sight does controllers, displays, brake switches, pas sensors etc. I use Yosepower for batteries for UK delivery, you may have other good options.

 

[UphillBattle]

The dropouts are 134mm apart so that sounds fine.

On the other hand that was the first time I’ve taken a close look at the bike in 18 months and pretty much all of the components need replacing: chain, crank, front rings, cassette, brakes and possibly the gear/brake controls & leads. Frame, front suspension, seat and handlebar are fine.

Im not sure how much these parts would cost, maybe I need to source a new bike.

Im in the U.K. but am not building to be road legal, building the right bike to suit my health is my priority.

 

[davell]

simplicity is not cheap. You will need a torque sensor to control the power delivery.
This bike does not have an LCD:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2019/karoo/karoo2.jpg

You can buy a kit that does the same but the torque sensor kit with 13AH battery costs about £499-£549 depending on motorwheel and LCD options.

I quite like the low profile ‘non ebike’ look of the new karoo as a commuter bike. Any idea when it will be available and pricing? The Woosh website seems to be only showing the old version at the moment.

 

[UphillBattle]

Ok I’ve made some progress while also standing still.

Screenless control: the “LED” control panel suggested above is great so I wondered if there was a UK supply. Sure enough ebay has a bunch of them, they look a little different but the layout is the same, so very probably exactly the same innards and connections.

But: they only come with the old school six separate rectangular connections so wouldn’t be compatible with the integrated single connector (Jolet?) that Yose power kits use. I had a look on eBay for other EU based kit suppliers but most seemed to be gearless hubs that could go up to 1000W - not what I need.

Alternative screenless strategy: Bluetooth to iPhone. An iPhone can be switched off (the screen that is) so needn’t cause me any bother. I’ve found a couple of controllers that have Bluetooth on bmsbattery and also talk of a cheap dongle made by Kunteng (!) though it doesn’t seem to be on sale anywhere.

Long term I’d maybe do this, for now I’d rather find a UK/EU supplier of parts so I can get started rather than wait a month for a shipment from China.

Bike: am looking into second hand bikes here, they mostly seem to be 29’ers which I gather isn’t ideal for rear hub usage and would rule out a prebuilt wheel. Maybe my bike will be worth salvaging but it doesn’t look good compared to how cheap newer used bikes are.

 

[UphillBattle]

I don't think so. PAS will give you power (at level set) as long as you are rotating the peddles. A twist or thumb throttle will give you quick get away from lights or on hills.
The bike looks like an easy one. Check the rear dropouts, if they are in the region of 130 - 140mm then this motor wiil be good.

Q128C-135mm 500W Rear Driving EBike Hub Motor Wheel RPM 201 Voltage 36V

Q128C-135mm 500W Rear Driving V-brake, rim-brake, Disc-Brake compatible E-Bike Hub Motor Wheel. Waterproof hall sensor connector.

bmsbattery.com

It's a 500w one so not legal in the UK - but I think you're in the U.S., is that right? You'd need to specify voltage and wheel size when you order. Same sight does controllers, displays, brake switches, pas sensors etc. I use Yosepower for batteries for UK delivery, you may have other good options.

Downtube Big Power 48V12.5Ah HaiLong Lithium E-Bike Battery with USB Battery Switch E-bike DIY

<p><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;">*24 months warranty.<br /> *Pass CE, ROHS, BASTO,UL,UN38.3.<br /> *Smart BMS System protect safety using and battery’s cycle life.<br /> *Lithium-ion battery has no memory effect, Cycle Times 1000+.<br /> *10...

www.yosepower.com

This is the one 48v I find on Yosepower. 48v13Ah: £160

USB 48V11.6AH E-bike Lithium Battery Downtube SAMSUNG Battery for 1000W Motor | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for USB 48V11.6AH E-bike Lithium Battery Downtube SAMSUNG Battery for 1000W Motor at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

rover.ebay.com

Or from their ebay shop: less at 11.6Ah for £220!

Either seems pretty cheap: are they trustworthy or better to go with a UK supplier?

 

[Nealh]

The price difference is down to the cells used the cheaper one uses unbranded no name China cells , the other one uses Samsung branded 29E cells.
No name China cells may either be a copy cell or could be genuine Samsung cells or other brand re badged, rebadged cells are usually second rate cells that big brands don't want their name to be associated with.

 

[UphillBattle]

The price difference is down to the cells used the cheaper one uses unbranded no name China cells , the other one uses Samsung branded 29E cells.
No name China cells may either be a copy cell or could be genuine Samsung cells or other brand re badged, rebadged cells are usually second rate cells that big brands don't want their name to be associated with.

Gotcha, I figured there would be a catch like that. My inclination is to go cheap on everything other than the battery so I’ll forget about the £160 one.

So would the nicer one be the same as this £275 one from Eclipse in the UK of apparently those same cells, so no need to pay the extra?

EclipseBikes

eclipsebikes.com

 

[Nealh]

The UK Eclipse one they have to charge VAT, Yose seem to get around this by supplying direct from EU warehouse without charging the VAT.
If your battery has an issue then certainly will be hard to send it back to EU or even China if they insist. At least with a UK battery, a UK co should be able to arrange shipment. Jimmy at Insat /BGA manages it as does Woosh with their courier arrangements.

Some have bought the no name unbranded batteries and appear to be happy with them.

 

[UphillBattle]

The UK Eclipse one they have to charge VAT, Yose seem to get around this by supplying direct from EU warehouse without charging the VAT.
If your battery has an issue then certainly will be hard to send it back to EU or even China if they insist. At least with a UK battery, a UK co should be able to arrange shipment. Jimmy at Insat /BGA manages it as does Woosh with their courier arrangements.

Some have bought the no name unbranded batteries and appear to be happy with them.

Thanks for your input again @Nealh

Good stuff, we have great options re battery supply. China is out, I’ll decide UK vs EU supply once the Chinese parts (motor, controller etc) are on their way.

I’m ordering the Q128C (36V/201RPM to run @48V) without wheel and will get it spoked up here. I’m impatient to get going with summer on the way and have heard BMS can take a while to do the wheels and dispatch.

My last decision before ordering the Chinese parts is whether to use the S KU 95 450W22A 9 Mosfets controller from BMS or go the PWSPower via Ali route and get the KT 36/48 500W20A Sine Wave. Either allows me to get an LED controller (LED810 vs LED 890 - similarly low tech as I require).

Do you have any opinion on these controllers for the Q128?

 

[jarob10]

I’ve had good results using this battery base controller with a 36v q128c


US $59.60 | KT sine wave controller 36V 500W 48V 500W Hailong controller Big Hailong battery case controller 36V / 48V 22A 9 mosfers

6.07￡ 9% OFF|Hailong controller Kit KT sine wave controller 36V 500W 48V 500W Big Hailong battery case controller 36V / 48V 22A 9 mosfers|Electric Bicycle Accessories| - AliExpress

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s.click.aliexpress.com

 

[jarob10]

I’ve had good results using this battery base controller with a 36v q128c


US $59.60 | KT sine wave controller 36V 500W 48V 500W Hailong controller Big Hailong battery case controller 36V / 48V 22A 9 mosfers

6.07￡ 9% OFF|Hailong controller Kit KT sine wave controller 36V 500W 48V 500W Big Hailong battery case controller 36V / 48V 22A 9 mosfers|Electric Bicycle Accessories| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

s.click.aliexpress.com

I run this controller displayless

 

[UphillBattle]

I run this controller displayless

Are you running it at 48v?

EDIT: and are you using a controller for PAS?

 

[jarob10]

36v, but the motor is wound for the highest rpm, and laced into a 700 wheel. The controller has PAS and throttle connections.