Just back from Presteigne...

[flecc]

Sorry Flecc I think you mis-understand, when you back pedal, the chain does not move at all, it stays completely still!

I dont have that on mine (do I - you know I have never tested that)

John

No misunderstanding John, yours is the same. Back pedal and the chain stays still and has to as
I've said above. I've added photos above of the pawl based freewheel that's on the chainwheel
shaft, the chainwheel sitting on those splines. When you turn the chainwheel backwards, those
two pawls skip past the serrations in the outer part. The pedal shaft runs independently in the
centre of those on it's own needle rollers.
.

 

[Dynamic Position]

There are two folders using the Panasonic unit and battery, both Flyer models from Swiss manufacturer BikeTech. Great quality but very expensive. The prices I show below the photo are slightly out of date so may be a little different now:

I have come to expect these sort of prices on 2009 bikes!

Thanks John for posting the feedback, it looks as if I will have to order a Tasman crossbar or a ProConnect.

Flecc, what happens if you pedal backwards while moving on a Kalkhoff pedelec?

 

[flecc]

Flecc, what happens if you pedal backwards while moving on a Kalkhoff pedelec?

Nothing other than the pedalshaft turning. The chainwheel and chain stay still, and there's no motor drive since
no torque force is being applied to the magnetic pedelec sensor by pedal effort.

It will glide gracefully to a standstill.
.

 

[Dynamic Position]

Nothing other than the pedalshaft turning. The chainwheel and chain stay still, and there's no motor drive since
no torque force is being applied to the magnetic pedelec sensor by pedal effort.

It will glide gracefully to a standstill.
.

I interpreted the Kalkhoff diagram somewhere on 50-cycles web site wrongly, thinking that a reverse pedal effort was possible thus reversing the (direction)signal from the magnetic sensor and somehow imagining a breaking effect (via the controller) to the motor!

Thanks for the link to 50-Cycles website. I was having difficulty getting through on the telephone number that was provided, perhaps it is down to it being a bank holiday weekend? The website enquiry links seemed to work okay because I received lots of emails back from 50-Cycles though they were interpreted as spam by my email provider!

One email indicated that new bikes were in stock. Another informed me that 50-cycles have demonstration bikes in 50 locations throughout the country and gave a postcode search for the nearest demontrator so I could try one. A third informed me that I could become a demonstrator etc. I don't think they realise that I am a complete novice!

If 50-Cycles gave demonstrators priority on a new bikes etc etc.., they might get more demonstrators.

 

[voodoo100]

50cycles@Presteigne

Yes there was a Tasman, but not a PC-S

This is me riding the PCS in the parade, I also rode it in the hillclimb and Tim rode it in the pedalling race at the go cart track

 

[flecc]

I interpreted the Kalkhoff diagram somewhere on 50-cycles web site wrongly, thinking that a reverse pedal effort was possible thus reversing the (direction)signal from the magnetic sensor and somehow imagining a breaking effect (via the controller) to the motor!

You were right in one sense that the rotation is being sensed whether going backwards or forwards, and on
many pedelec e-bikes back pedalling still enables the power. The Panasonic unit prevents that by sensing
torque pressure as the only condition allowing power, not rotation. That's why it's able to apply take off
power on the first pedal pressure at a standstill.

One email indicated that new bikes were in stock. Another informed me that 50-cycles have demonstration bikes in 50 locations throughout the country and gave a postcode search for the nearest demontrator so I could try one. A third informed me that I could become a demonstrator etc. I don't think they realise that I am a complete novice!

If 50-Cycles gave demonstrators priority on a new bikes etc etc.., they might get more demonstrators.

This demonstrator scheme is very new so they are advertising and promoting it as much as anything else,
hence your receiving all that. Years ago they ran a successful demonstrator scheme with another make
of e-bike. They are based on existing owners being the demonstrators with their own models and receiving
reward in return.
.

 

[Phil [OnBike]]

Hi Dynamic,

My name is Phil and I'm from OnBike.

Before you make up your mind, you may wish to also consider one of our new E-motion range of bikes?

They E-motions use the Panasonic 250w pedelec motor system with derailleur gears etc and may be of interest - feel free to have a look on OnBike - The Electric Bike Specialists and browse the E-motion range.

You would be more than welcome to come and try out the various models at either our Kidderminster branch or Presteigne branch.

Any questions, just pop me an e-mail phil@onbike.co.uk or drop me a line on 01299 25 15 14.

Best wishes

Phil
Director
OnBike Ltd

 

[the_killjoy]

16 Spoke ? let's hope that isn't the start of another saga

 

[flecc]

16 Spoke ? let's hope that isn't the start of another saga

The Onbike site description is inaccurate in saying 16 spoke wheels, only the front wheel of the 16.5 kilo bike is
16 spoke, the rear 20 spoke, all of them high performance flat spokes. If the build quality is faultless they can
be ok.

Not something I personally like to see on an e-bike though, even one as light as this, still much heavier than
the unpowered sport bikes those wheels are designed for.
.

 

[Phil [OnBike]]

Hi Flecc,

Thanks for pointing that out Flecc - my mistake website has now been updated.

For a more robust style bike; perhaps the Cross or Cross Deluxe.
Maybe the City Deluxe for full mudgaurds, rack and integrated lights etc.

Cheers...

Phil
Director
OnBike Ltd
phil@onbike.co.uk
OnBike - The Electric Bike Specialists

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the update Phil.

Although I'm not too keen on minimally spoked wheels, I think it's a big benefit to have these sporty variants
on the Panasonic theme from BH in their E-motion range.

Choice is always good, and I applaud BH's enterprise and yours in introducing them here.
.

 

[Phil [OnBike]]

Thank you Flecc

 

[rog_london]

OnBike's E-motion range

I love the idea of a proper road bike which is also an e-bike - my personal opinion is that the Panasonic type system is the only one really suited to this treatment. A throttle control would be especially difficult on 'drops'.

The only snag would be the 15mph limit on assistance, because most road bikes (allegedly) get ridden at a much higher average speed than that, and then the extra weight of the 'engine' and battery would be a significant disadvantage. If a derestricted Panasonic drive were fitted though.....

I don't think I've seen a 'production' e-bike of this type before. Knowing how snobbish some cyclists can be it would be interesting to see what reactions one might get from the die-hards! I could ask my pal in Warlingham who is definitely in that category - though I think I already know.

I hope they sell though - e-bikes should not all have to look like mountain bikes or Granny's shopper. I'll never get the chance to try one, so all this is just guesswork on my part. What's that top-of-the-range bike *really* like to ride?

Rog.

 

[flecc]

The only snag would be the 15mph limit on assistance, because most road bikes (allegedly) get ridden at a much higher average speed than that, and then the extra weight of the 'engine' and battery would be a significant disadvantage. If a derestricted Panasonic drive were fitted though.....

What's that top-of-the-range bike *really* like to ride?

Rog.

I don't think the 15 mph assist limit matters on a bike of this sort Rog, seeing that it weighs only 16.5 kilos.
It has things in common with the Cytronex, like that bike's 17 kilos and 15 mph assist limit. Both of them are
primarily for hill climb help with capable cyclists aboard, rather than all purpose machines.

Both the Panasonic unit and the Nano motor in the Cytronex have low enough resistance for pedalling above
the limit, and those low weights will be great help in that.

The striking thing could be the range potential of that BH. I showed how over 50 miles is attainable on the
26 kilo Agattu, so imagine what this E-motion Sport de Luxe could do with a keen rider much younger than me.
.

 

[rog_london]

I don't think the 15 mph assist limit matters on a bike of this sort Rog, seeing that it weighs only 16.5 kilos.
It has things in common with the Cytronex, like that bike's 17 kilos and 15 mph assist limit. Both of them are
primarily for hill climb help with capable cyclists aboard, rather than all purpose machines.

Both the Panasonic unit and the Nano motor in the Cytronex have low enough resistance for pedalling above
the limit, and those low weights will be great help in that.

The striking thing could be the range potential of that BH. I showed how over 50 miles is attainable on the
26 kilo Agattu, so imagine what this E-motion Sport de Luxe could do with a keen rider much younger than me.
.

Good morning Tony

I'd sort of thought that, and was more inviting comment than anything. It did occur to me that the range would be potentially very good because other than for starts and for steep hills the motor wouldn't be doing anything at all. It's the Sport Deluxe I was specifically referring to of course.

You'd probably be doomed to solo riding though. I can't see any serious cycling club letting you get away with battery power. At best you'd be relegated to 'family runs' mixed in with mountain bikes and kids with stabilizers. I'd be interested to know from any of the serious Lycras who must lurk in here what they think.

Obviously you'd have a different mindset riding one of those than you would (say) a Wisper. To get it to 'go' you would need to get fit or be fit to begin with, and then maybe it would be rewarding. You can ride the Wisper on minimal assist, but I bet most owners do what I do, which is to put in a decent effort but use full throttle and off road mode almost all the time to get maximum speed and maximise the fun. Even doing that you get fitter though - I note that my averages are creeping up all the time, and that's without any pain.

Summing up, the biggest problem I would have with the Sport Deluxe would be the loss of street cred - there are always those who think that an e-bike is 'cheating' even though the logic is flawed. I suspect on one of those you'd need a really thick skin. If you overtook someone at 30mph they'd just say 'Yes, well, of course, with an electric motor helping you that thing is little more than a glorified moped' and they'd not be interested in hearing that the motor does nothing at all above 15 mph.

Rog.

 

[flecc]

It's true Rog that many just do as you and I do, use the throttle freely and enjoy the e-bike benefits to the full,
these sport bikes being a different market. It does exist though as Cytronex have shown, a number of our
members owning one, probably mostly "lone riders".

There's always the age market though. There's been a few keen club riders who've stuck with the club runs or
rendezvous as they've aged by adding electric, and a couple by extending still further into old age using
recumbent trikes with electric power. One I know of named Bill, can't remember the surname, was still joining up
with his club at a pub rendezvous on a Heinzmann powered recumbent well into his 90's and was an honoured
member of the cycling club. From his early 80's he'd been using electric power to keep up on their shorter runs.

So I think keen club cyclists are a potential market for these sport bikes and wider acceptance by clubs as their
members find it tougher to keep up on hills due to age. A long range bike like that BH makes it much more
possible, and club riders don't flinch at £1800 for a bike, often paying vastly more for their lightweight bikes.

I get on fine with many of the club riders in my area, several waving greetings from seeing me regularly and one
group stopped once to have a good look at my bike. I've found the standoffish ones are often the weekend
pseuds, the really keen and capable club riders often being the most friendly.
.

 

[rog_london]

Yes of course - I wasn't allowing for the older ones. If they've been club cyclists in the past, then they already have all the credibility they need, and there would be no problem having a little assistance to help them (us!) keep up.

It's a shame that those who have been 'athletic' in their younger days pay the price as they get older - we tend to forget that the body is designed to 'run' for about 50 years and after that, like alloy rims, we tend to wear out!

Having NOT been athletically inclined, but being short and fairly light, I don't have any joint problems at all, so it's just a matter of fitness. Exercise for me is really geared to having fun rather than obsession.

And now, attired in the cycling gear I bought from Aldi the other week, I'm about to take advantage of the sunshine. I feel a little foolish - jeans and a jacket are cycling wear I feel more at home with - but I suppose I look respectable so I'll get used to it. We tend to get over conservative as we get older, don't we?

Rog.

 

[flecc]

Having NOT been athletically inclined, but being short and fairly light,

Exercise for me is really geared to having fun rather than obsession.

- jeans and a jacket are cycling wear I feel more at home with

All that describes me quite accurately too!

It's probably my age that makes for the e-bike acceptance by the local club riders. If I was in my 20's or 30's
and riding electric, they probably wouldn't be so uncritical!
.

 

[Barnowl]

It's a shame that those who have been 'athletic' in their younger days pay the price as they get older - we tend to forget that the body is designed to 'run' for about 50 years and after that, like alloy rims, we tend to wear out!
Rog.

Ha Ha... First time I've been compared to an alloy rim. No wonder I feel tyred all the time. Must be the pressure..

 

[rog_london]

Ha Ha... First time I've been compared to an alloy rim. No wonder I feel tyred all the time. Must be the pressure..

Don't tempt me - I can be MUCH ruder than that!

Rog.