Well yes quite, however, that's not my point...if they had the choice would they choose throttle + pedelec or pedelec only....I suspect they would choose throttle + pedelec.
Illegal Bikes
- Thread starter lemmy
- Start date
Possibly, but my original answer was to Mike's thought that us losing throttles will lead to less sales. I just don't think its a big factor in the wider market judging from sales elsewhere. The emphasis in here is because this is an e-bike forum full of enthusiasts, but we are a minority in the general e-biking population.
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Indeed. For the moment when the law changes the lack of throttle availability will be missed by some, particularly the enthusiast. But in a short time it will be just like on the continent, people just accepting pedelecs as they are.
They lost throttle availability in mainland Europe just 6 years, 9 months and 5 days ago (November 10th 2003) and there's no sign of mourning these days. In fact they still had throttle bikes available a little more recently than that since there was a moratorium to allow dealers to sell existing stock, but I can't remember how long that was.
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What I never understand, when reading this debate, whenever it comes up, is why everybody talks in terms of the throttle becoming a thing of the past.
As I read the proposed law change, you can still use a throttle, as long as the pedals are turning. I believe Wisper have used this rationale to sell ebikes in Europe for years.
As most people with a 905se will know, there is a purple wire loop on the controller, that when connected, makes the bike EU compliant. The throttle then simply acts as a power limiter, allowing fine control of the pedelec system in effect, and turning the Hi/Lo box into a kind of cruise control.
It all seems somewhat overly dramatic, when the upshot of the changes is, in essence, only very slightly different from the status quo. There is also the the positive side to it, in that it will protect the image of ebiking by guaranteeing that we continue to look like cyclists primarily, and not a bunch of chancers riding round on disguised electric scooters.
As I read the proposed law change, you can still use a throttle, as long as the pedals are turning. I believe Wisper have used this rationale to sell ebikes in Europe for years.
As most people with a 905se will know, there is a purple wire loop on the controller, that when connected, makes the bike EU compliant. The throttle then simply acts as a power limiter, allowing fine control of the pedelec system in effect, and turning the Hi/Lo box into a kind of cruise control.It all seems somewhat overly dramatic, when the upshot of the changes is, in essence, only very slightly different from the status quo. There is also the the positive side to it, in that it will protect the image of ebiking by guaranteeing that we continue to look like cyclists primarily, and not a bunch of chancers riding round on disguised electric scooters.
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Quite true Straylight, but it's noticeable that most e-bikes sold in the main EU cycling countries don't have any throttles. You'd be hard pushed even find a Wisper or eZee bike to buy in Holland and Germany, dealers there being stocked with Gazelle, Sparta, Kalkhoff, Flyer, other local makes, Giant etc, all pure pedelecs.
Giant is an Oriental manufacturer, the biggest of them all in fact, and they've never bothered to fit throttles in a decade of e-bikes. I suspect that over time our market will drift that way once the other Chinese manufacturers learn how to design a decent torque sensing pedelec as Giant have done.
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Giant is an Oriental manufacturer, the biggest of them all in fact, and they've never bothered to fit throttles in a decade of e-bikes. I suspect that over time our market will drift that way once the other Chinese manufacturers learn how to design a decent torque sensing pedelec as Giant have done.
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I hope they do, as the common system of what is really just a switch, operated by pedal movement, isn't fit for purpose in terms of rider control and so safety IMHO. I ride with the pedelec system on its lowest setting, then overridden by the throttle. The only thing I'd like to improve upon this, is a proper cruise control, ie. one that is cancelled by the brakes.
A sigh of relief from this quarter. I've been banging on to all my amputee correspondents on the interweb for the past two months and more just how great ebikes are BECAUSE of the sodding throttle, which means that amputee cyclists who often have great difficulty in getting going from a standstill are now liberated from that problem!
Consider me now A Lobby in favour of the retention of throttles (at least for holders of disabled accreditation etc.)
A
Absolutely. The start-off power that's available at the first press of a pedal easily matches any other legal e-bike. With a determined thrust I could even get a slight wheelie on my old Lafree Twist lite.
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Been, done, T-shirt.
With one leg (and gord only knows how the poor sods with NO legs manage), anyway, with one leg you have to put your GOOD foot on the concrete, and then push the pedal down with your plastic foot. Which works, a lot of the time, but then you have to have got enough momentum to get your good foot on its pedal, too, and then pedal away.
This has drawbacks. Overweight rider, or a slightly UPHILL start, and you are cattled. Just cannot get enough push with the plastic one to get to that 2mph you need to maintain level flight. I used to push my bike round corners to find a bit of flat road, then start off and hoped to get up enough steam to go round the corner onto a hilly bit. Usually worked.
Anyway, Kalkhoffs were fine and powerful, and very nearly addressed this problem. But not quite.
(Why start with plastic foot on pedal? Because without feeling, it's almost impossible to position your plastic one on a MOVING pedal!)
Allen.
Thanks Allen for the clarification Well I guess with your particular circumstances you will have to stick with a throttle bike, I had intended to treat myself to a top of the range last of the throttler's just before the regs change, but I am not so sure now.
I guess you will always be able to activate the throttle anyway via the connections, and say b*ll*cks to EU law
Well I guess with your particular circumstances you will have to stick with a throttle bike, I had intended to treat myself to a top of the range last of the throttler's just before the regs change, but I am not so sure now.I guess you will always be able to activate the throttle anyway via the connections, and say b*ll*cks to EU law
Soepele ondersteuning en slimme ‘gashendel’
Maar liefst 17 elektrische fietsmerken uit binnen- en buitenland zijn getest in de ‘E-bike test Telegraaf 2010’. Een consumentenpanel beoordeelde de Sparta E-motion met de maximale score van 5 sterren. De soepele ondersteuning en de handige ‘gashendel’ werden met name geprezen door de testrijders.
SPARTA - Sparta E-motion winnaar! - elektrische fietstest Telegraaf
Sparta are trumpeting the fact they won 5 stars in a consumer test in the newspapers, and one USP which appears to have impressed the testers was the handy "throttle". Now this only allows the bike to go up to 6 km/h from standstill (which must be one intepretation of the EU rule) but this new model actually has some sort of throttle!
That's a different thing altogether Alex, we have that as an option too on any Panasonic powered bike and it won't be disappearing with the new law.
That's what is called a walk-alongside throttle, enabling someone to walk their e-bike up hills that they can't manage to ride up, but they are low powered in that mode since it's just to drive the bike weight only. No use on the road when cycling.
In Britain that comes under the pedestrian controlled vehicle regulations* and limited to 4 mph maximum. In the EU they have the same type of law but with 6 kph limiting, which is a touch slower than ours.
*This law is really for the sort of walk-with electric pavement vans that postmen and the like use in high population areas. Sometimes there are electric pavement sweepers too, but it's a convenient law for e-bikes to take advantage of.
N.B. The Panasonic Walk-Alongside thumb throttle mod if fitted to one of the illegal high speed models gives assistance to around 12-13 mph as a by product of those units speed, so more a run-alongside throttle. Still low powered though.
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I wonder...
During my tests on Wispers and Kalkhoffs before I bought the former, the Kalkhoffs that I tried didn't have the walk-alongside throttle, which might well have tipped it for me. The 4mph sounds just right - you say they're no use for road cycling, but would they get a rider (i.e. me) from standstill to moving, on flat or slightly hilly roads, or are they just designed to move the bike itself, riderless?
Allen.
Not even powerful enough unaided to get the bike alone up a steep slope according to some disappointed owners, so doubtful if you'd get enough help.
The throttle is an option at extra cost at any time, all current models have the connection for it.
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Allen,
Your requirements could be met by purchasing a Panasonic powered bike pre-fitted with a walk alongside throttle. I think it would work like this:
With your plastic foot settled on the pedal, open the walk alongside throttle to get the machine moving, and then bring your good foot into play. As for starting on an upslope, the Panasonic system still drives through the machines road gearing when the throttle is used, so a little experimentation would be needed to find the most suitable gear to preselect before starting off.
Getting back to the topic - I doubt any casual observer would know the difference, I think it's just the colour of the chainguard...
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