Illegal Bikes
- Thread starter lemmy
- Start date
Sorry. I dislike it when people use abbreviations such as this and don't explain what the letters mean. Here I am doing just that!
Kit car owners have to do it. I'm unsure of the current state of it, but it used to be relatively cheap (approx £250, iirc), but I think things have changed recently.
Basically, all the inspectors are looking for on a car, m/cycle, trike, etc, are that the various Construction and Use requirements are met, so that the driver, passenger(s) and peds aren't horribly mangled; that the chassis, lights, steering, suspension, brakes, etc are generally in place (and in the right places) and that the vehicle is overall roadworthy.
It's basically just an Engineer's Report.
A UK SVA test centre would be scratching their heads when confronted by a bicycle, but they'd do it, I suppose, and the cost would be low (I hope).
In Ireland, if I wanted to do this for a high-powered electric bike, I'd go get an ER myself and the insurance company would be happy with it. Here, before the introduction of a National Car Test, the ER was a commonly done way of making sure your vehicle was up to scratch, so the inscos are well used to it.
I had an SVA test on a 4x4 pick up truck I imported years ago, cant remember the cost but I am sure it is on the VOSA website (The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency
)
Latest Fees
they usually test trucks and the like, so not sure how they would react to an electric push bike, but I guess they will be pretty jaded, and have seen everything
)Latest Fees
they usually test trucks and the like, so not sure how they would react to an electric push bike, but I guess they will be pretty jaded, and have seen everything
Single vehicle approval costs £55 for a "low powered moped", i.e. up to 1000 watts but still restricted to 16 mph maximum. Everything you need to knopw about it is on the links below, but I've not known anyone do it yet:
SVA scheme details
Fees, (scroll down to motorcycles)
.
SVA scheme details
Fees, (scroll down to motorcycles)
.
Two points.
1) Lemmy's original posting called on us to keep our gobs shut about illegal bikes for fear that the Old Bill would monitor these messages and start sniffing around. Well, of course it's possible that one day some police high-up will reckon there is an easy nick to be had in pursuing illegal and semi-legal ebikes, but for as long as it's left to the copper on the beat, as Flecc has pointed out, most are far too busy to bother.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it, or try and encroach on what is essentially a matter of the forum's free speech.
2) If there IS a valid issue here, I think it's one of power, not speed. 15-18mph plus leg power is probably fast enough for most of us, for most uses, and manufacturers will no doubt keep on bringing out better motors and batteries so that we can all climb even steeper hills, for longer.
Perhaps we should lobby for tighter control on top speeds, but looser on motor and battery outputs.
Allen.
1) Lemmy's original posting called on us to keep our gobs shut about illegal bikes for fear that the Old Bill would monitor these messages and start sniffing around. Well, of course it's possible that one day some police high-up will reckon there is an easy nick to be had in pursuing illegal and semi-legal ebikes, but for as long as it's left to the copper on the beat, as Flecc has pointed out, most are far too busy to bother.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it, or try and encroach on what is essentially a matter of the forum's free speech.
2) If there IS a valid issue here, I think it's one of power, not speed. 15-18mph plus leg power is probably fast enough for most of us, for most uses, and manufacturers will no doubt keep on bringing out better motors and batteries so that we can all climb even steeper hills, for longer.
Perhaps we should lobby for tighter control on top speeds, but looser on motor and battery outputs.
Allen.
I doubt that any cop will ever bother to check the power of an e-bike. The problem is the speed.
If bicycles are seen regularly moving up the high street at or near the legal limit, someone will notice. A bicycle moving at 28mph is perceived by everyone as going faster than normally expected and is noticeable.
It would be highly dangerous for pedestrians who already don't perceive a bicycle's presence because if its quietness. If it's going at near the legal limit in town too, road accidents will increase and bicycles will no longer be perceived as a nuisance when misused but as potentially lethal.
We've already seen what the lycra louts can do to our reputation. Now let's see what they and the kiddie speed merchants together can do with their powered up e-bikes.
All I was asking was that we don't encourage these idiots here.
If bicycles are seen regularly moving up the high street at or near the legal limit, someone will notice. A bicycle moving at 28mph is perceived by everyone as going faster than normally expected and is noticeable.
It would be highly dangerous for pedestrians who already don't perceive a bicycle's presence because if its quietness. If it's going at near the legal limit in town too, road accidents will increase and bicycles will no longer be perceived as a nuisance when misused but as potentially lethal.
We've already seen what the lycra louts can do to our reputation. Now let's see what they and the kiddie speed merchants together can do with their powered up e-bikes.
All I was asking was that we don't encourage these idiots here.
Agreed, wholeheartedly, Lemmy. Although I must say that in my few months here I haven't noticed much of that sort. I know OldTimer sails (rides?) shall we say into the wind, but his bike modifications seem to concentrate on improving power rather than speed.
I do agree that lycra louts and ebike speed freaks ruin our reputation as cyclists and human beings!
Allen.
@flecc - so a e-bike capable of exceeding 16mph would just be tested as a motorcycle, I would expect - £85 for the SVA.
@lemmy - I understand that more mistakes are made at higher speeds, but I'd have thought the problem is not so much the speed as the impact upon legal e-bikers of illegal bikes. But if a e-bike capable of 25mph is ridden well, and is licensed and insured, there shouldn't be a problem - should there?
My point is that regarding all overpowered e-bikes as "illegal", despite their licensing circumstances, seems rather to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater
@lemmy - I understand that more mistakes are made at higher speeds, but I'd have thought the problem is not so much the speed as the impact upon legal e-bikers of illegal bikes. But if a e-bike capable of 25mph is ridden well, and is licensed and insured, there shouldn't be a problem - should there?
My point is that regarding all overpowered e-bikes as "illegal", despite their licensing circumstances, seems rather to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater
I agree. As one who has built a more powerfull bike than standard, I did it for the reason Allen states - power.
I rarely take it above 15 - 20mph even though it is capable of higher speeds. I only know this because, like you do, I tested it out on a private road when I first built it. I am however very aware that I do not want to attract too much attention to what is an already unusual looking bike, so I keep my speed down and ride in the most unobtrusive fashion I think appropriate for the circumstances.
Indeed, it would fall into the normal 30 mph restricted moped class along with so many of the 50cc scooters.
It could be problematic getting SVA for a bicycle in that class though. The examiners might well expect full moped/motorcycle lighting standards (heights, intensities, maybe dipping required), a loud horn, very high braking standards and secure and rigid number plate mounting. It could all get a bit complicated and expensive.
.
The law is an ASS.
The top speed for cars is anywhere from 5mph to 80mph.
But the cars all have a top speed of OVER 100MPH!!!!!!!!
The test should not be what our bikes are CAPABLE OF.
The test should be what our bikes do at a certain time, at a certain place, and under certain conditions.
Clearly, a man with a bike that can do 50MPH should not be criminalized for climbing a big hill at 7mph, simply because his bike is capable of so much more.
Likewise a moron with an asthmatic Tongxin and a 24v 9Ah battery who is pedalling and throttling like an idiot at 14mph outside a childrens school should not escape the scrutiny of the law.
The law is a tool, and to use a tool you must be smarter than the tool.
The top speed for cars is anywhere from 5mph to 80mph.
But the cars all have a top speed of OVER 100MPH!!!!!!!!
The test should not be what our bikes are CAPABLE OF.
The test should be what our bikes do at a certain time, at a certain place, and under certain conditions.
Clearly, a man with a bike that can do 50MPH should not be criminalized for climbing a big hill at 7mph, simply because his bike is capable of so much more.
Likewise a moron with an asthmatic Tongxin and a 24v 9Ah battery who is pedalling and throttling like an idiot at 14mph outside a childrens school should not escape the scrutiny of the law.
The law is a tool, and to use a tool you must be smarter than the tool.
That is actually and probably the best answer yet. I`ve often wondered why in this climate cars are being made to travel at twice the legal limit as standard!( I think even my humble Golf TDi was listed at 130mph top speed) it is as you say the way in which a vehicle is used.
For me the extra power when needed is what it is all about and around country lanes where I ride I reduce my speed to a crawl when approaching dog walkers, horses, children etc and very rarely ride in or near towns. I`ve had my years of the thrill of speed on two wheels as I`ve no doubt that people on here have. For me when ever I look down at my speedo on the bikes they are usually reading between 15-18mph and any faster is not the pleasant country ride I enjoy.
I really don`t think that E bikes are going to attract the young lunatics.
Lemmy! (with the best will in the world)I think you must have been a bit bored the other day when you started this thread mate. There are so many more important things going on you could put your energy into.
I don't agree with you both since you are missing the fundamental point.
E-bikes are meant to remain as bicycles and be ridden by anyone without any form of test of competence, licence or insurance. Nor do they have to have any identifying number plate. It logically follows that the vehicle has to be restricted on all of those grounds. The matter cannot be left to untested and unidentifiable riders.
Conversely, cars can only be driven by those tested for competence who also have to have insurance to protect others, plus they are traceable by number plate and drivers identifiable by licence.
They are two totally different things and any comparison is false.
Several European countries including Britain have produced very similar laws at various times over the last 30 years and these have since been integrated into EU law now. It isn't realistic to call the work of so many diverse legislators assinine, as I've shown, what they have done is entirely rational.
.
Last edited:
Tony
That`s fine, you can agree or disagree no problem. I think what I should have said rather than get into the legality etc was the futility of the thread
Laws are like spiderwebs. They catch small flies, but let wasps and hornets break through
I agree Dave, it's what I was saying in this earlier post in this thread.I think what I should have said rather than get into the legality etc was the futility of the thread
.
I'd argue that the lack of the protection of insurance, and indeed a padded metal shell, makes us a more responsible lot and that all a licence does is promote overconfidence in ones abilities. There is also the fact that many motorists see the law as some thing to be played with, much as a young child sees what they can get away with within the authority of their parents. All too often have I seen the 'naughty' little grin on the face of a driver when they talk about their cars, like they have some kind of secret knowledge that a non-driver could never understand. Imagine for a moment, if there was no requirement for a driving licence at all, how cautious and careful would everyone be? I'm neither a fantasist or an anarchist, but I do feel that as a society we have a propensity to exclude ourselves from responsibility for pretty much everything.
I agree with Lemmy's stance in the respect that I don't care what people get up to as long as they present no danger to anyone else. Where I strongly disagree is with the notion that e-bikers will want to go faster and faster, I'm with OT on this, in that 15-18 is fast enough for something as exposed as a bicycle, being about as fast as I could maintain on an unpowered bike, and also at such speeds you can enjoy your environment whist still getting somewhere. I also slow down for horses, areas with pedestrians etc., to a much greater degree than you average motorist, which I think in part is due to a greater vulnerability and connection with my physical environment.
There's no way I'd want to be in the same speed strata as cars and motorbikes, to mixed up in their petty bickerings etc., as for me the journey is as important as the destination.
Last edited:
It doesn't in any way alter what I've said, the two things are totally different and should not be compared.
Your argument is highly subjective so it's hardly a basis for setting law. There were many years when one just went into a post office and bought a driving licence, no test was necessary, but the outcome was catastrophic. Over 6000 deaths a year with far less than 0.2% of today's vehicles on UK roads. Today with well over 600 times as many vehicles we get around half that number of deaths, a 1200 times improvement. Of course there are other factors playing a part in this, but the dominant ones by far are the application of laws in many areas of motoring.
Laws that save life on that massive scale are not assinine as was originally implied.
.
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
