How much battery sag is too much for a 3 year old battery?

[Ghost1951]

Exactly why “tampering” with ebikes is illegal in Europe, jail time even. Not sure about uk law but in the event of a death you can be sure tampering will be frowned upon.

If true, isn't that completely ridiculous?

I am all for adults being allowed to be free to do ordinary things without overbearing state interference. I am also fine with people who do harm to others, including through negligence, being given severe penalties.

Of course, as you noted, I performed my test in a safe way and not while walking the bike in a crowded market place. Who would anyway have a bike powered up in such a situation?

The fact that I tested these settings in a safe place and recorded the results should be evidence enough that there is nothing wrong with making changes. In fact I started out on this quest to make my conversion match the legal regulations on speed, throttles and power, and made adjustments after consulting a lot of published experience.

 

[Ghost1951]

Pedal assist hasn't activated while walking the bike on pavements, which could be due to my folded down pedals not being knocked by my legs. Quite an alarming outcome walking the bike thrrough long grass, as mentioned above. If 24 is a full rotation, I guess Start Degree set to "4" is 60° and "2" is 30°. I'll do a road test soon, to see how safe pedal assist is ridden.

I think those number assumptions are right.

Your sudden activation in long grass could have happened because the grass moved the crank arm. Mine happened because of a small amount of drag in the motor freewheel while the motor was turning the chain wheel and there was no weight on the pedals. The pedals were slowly and gently rotating, as I was trying the walk assist throttle. The sudden burst did not happen until the throttle was let go, and the stop decay time meant that the controller 'thought' the pedals were still rotating - hence sudden power forward (it only happened in the two higher power level pas settings). I have no idea how long the slow start setting is active, but the whole event was over in about one second

I am going to set the START UP DEGREE SIGNAL to 4, which is what it was before I followed your change.

 

[guerney]

I think those number assumptions are right.

Your sudden activation in long grass could have happened because the grass moved the crank arm. Mine happened because of a small amount of drag in the motor freewheel while the motor was turning the chain wheel and there was no weight on the pedals. The pedals were slowly and gently rotating, as I was trying the walk assist throttle. The sudden burst did not happen until the throttle was let go, and the stop decay time meant that the controller 'thought' the pedals were still rotating - hence sudden power forward (it only happened in the two higher power level pas settings). I have no idea how long the slow start setting is active, but the whole event was over in about one second

I am going to set the START UP DEGREE SIGNAL to 4, which is what it was before I followed your change.

Yep, long grass turned my folded down pedals, activated pedal assist.

My "Stop delay" is set to 100ms, "Stop decay" is 0ms, therefore pedal assist stops sharp. If unprepared, this can result in sudden pain to the knees when pedal assist abrupty cuts off at 25kph, but I'd rather have that than motor run on - safer tricky small maneuvering on the edges of ravines, has also helped me avoid being shot off large rocks into empty air, which are more examples of firmware tinkerings making the motor safer and more useful than originally configured.






There doesn't appear to be "Stop delay" in your web based configurator. I guess that's been relabelled as "Time of stop", and if so, "25" was too slow for me.

 

[Ghost1951]

There doesn't appear to be "Stop delay" in your web based configurator. I think it;s "Time of stop":

'TIME OF STOP' maybe? Mine is set at 25. I have never changed that setting. I only edited things I think I understand.

It doesn't take long.

One slightly weird but not unpleasant thing is that the power comes in what I'd call waves. I come to a slope and the power delivery has been very low or non existent because I am at about 15 miles an hour, and I feel my own effort increasing for a second or so and then I feel a gentle surge. This goes on to restore the speed a bit and my effort goes down, then the controller backs off. I have KEEP CURRENT at 80% now, but it was the same thing at 100% when I tried that.

I am quite happy to make a moderate level of effort and prefer to extend the battery / mileage rather than to treat it as a moped. It is a bicycle and I like that. I just want a bit of help up hills and into strong winds. Funny this surging waves thing though - and like I said, it isn't KEEP CURRENT governed.


EDIT: I now have the start degree setting back at 4 which was where it was at the start. I would now need a 60 degree crank rotation to initiate motor power by PAS.

 

[guerney]

One slightly weird but not unpleasant thing is that the power comes in what I'd call waves. I come to a slope and the power delivery has been very low or non existent because I am at about 15 miles an hour, and I feel my own effort increasing for a second or so and then I feel a gentle surge. This goes on to restore the speed a bit and my effort goes down, then the controller backs off. I have KEEP CURRENT at 80% now, but it was the same thing at 100% when I tried that.

I am quite happy to make a moderate level of effort and prefer to extend the battery / mileage rather than to treat it as a moped. It is a bicycle and I like that. I just want a bit of help up hills and into strong winds. Funny this surging waves thing though - and like I said, it isn't KEEP CURRENT governed.

I can only speculate this cadence sensing motor's power delivery envelope "wave" effect you speak of, is less noticeable at lower PAS levels, because I never use those. The last thing I want from my ebike is exercise. I slow jog for exercise instead, better for hip bone density than cycling, better for the knees, better generally.

'TIME OF STOP' maybe? Mine is set at 25. I have never changed that setting. I only edited things I think I understand.

It doesn't take long.

According to this, "25" will result in 0.25s. Far too slow for me. That's ages, so mine is set to 0.1s. That extra 0.15s could be the difference between life and death

https://edrivenet.com/bafang-programming/

 

[Ghost1951]

Life or death? You exaggerate sir...

 

[Voltsnamps]

That firmware parameter changes using the configurator have been made/patched by the end-user, can't be proven - there is no file version history, it's a hack.

Sadly, a very naive thought.
when you click the tickbox acknowledging your rights, no warranty etc, the firmware is “marked”, neither seller nor Bafang take any responsibility fot tampering, not morally, legally nor financially.
more obviously anyone can use same software, compare to legit 250w specs and prove exactly what was changed.

Better yet, the clowns I read about, confessed (bragged?) about the tampering on the kraut forums, including their settings and sometimes phone pictures with their houses in shot. Would you believe even gpx files showing their (illegal) speeds and where.

can’t prove ? These guys jumped into jail, no-one here’s that stupid, I know but watch the Euro forums for rules and methods

 

[guerney]

Sadly, a very naive thought.
when you click the tickbox acknowledging your rights, no warranty etc, the firmware is “marked”, neither seller nor Bafang take any responsibility fot tampering, not morally, legally nor financially.
more obviously anyone can use same software, compare to legit 250w specs and prove exactly what was changed.

Better yet, the clowns I read about, confessed (bragged?) about the tampering on the kraut forums, including their settings and sometimes phone pictures with their houses in shot. Would you believe even gpx files showing their (illegal) speeds and where.

can’t prove ? These guys jumped into jail, no-one here’s that stupid, I know but watch the Euro forums for rules and methods

The seller of my BBS01B kit couldn't tell I had made any changes - he'd told me had software which could determine whether firmware had been altered. After inspecting my controller for two weeks at his "Diagnostic facility" in China, he sent me a replacement controller for free. The "Configurator" is a firmware parameter patcher - of course you can tell if values are different from factory fresh, but there's no way to prove the end user did it. I guess there could be dawn raids to find programming cables in my house, but it seems highly unlikely the authorities would expend such resources to do that. They'd never get past my ferocious wife.

 

[guerney]

Life or death? You exaggerate sir...

Air wafts caused by that 0.15s motor run on will wreak chaotic havoc and devastation all over the world via the Butterfly Effect. It's why I don't do heavy breathing, and avoid breaking wind despite eating beans and vegetables. Reminds me, must make more natto.

 

[Voltsnamps]

The seller of my BBS01B kit couldn't tell I had made any changes - he'd told me had software which could determine whether firmware had been altered. After inspecting my controller for two weeks at his "Diagnostic facility" in China, he sent me a replacement controller for free. The "Configurator" is a firmware parameter patcher - of course you can tell if values are different from factory fresh, but there's no way to prove the end user did it. I guess there could be dawn raids to find programming cables in your house, but it seems highly unlikely the authorities would expend such resources to do that. They'd never get past my ferocious wife.

Does it matter WHO did it ?
Law isn’t that complicated, only the user is liable for tampering
Fresh controller from legal seller may help

or
grandfather rights (pre 16 bicycle)
55 quid donation to the policeman’s ball
No lawyer but either way seem to solve your problem without breaking rules

 

[guerney]

Fresh controller from legal seller may help

Thank you for this utterly useless suggestion. Deep down, I really want a crappy ebike riding experience again.

Does it matter WHO did it ?
Law isn’t that complicated, only the user is liable for tampering
Fresh controller from legal seller may help

or
grandfather rights (pre 16 bicycle)
55 quid donation to the policeman’s ball
No lawyer but either way seem to solve your problem without breaking rules

There are no UK laws to prevent ebike "tampering":

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/

 

[saneagle]

Does it matter WHO did it ?
Law isn’t that complicated, only the user is liable for tampering
Fresh controller from legal seller may help

or
grandfather rights (pre 16 bicycle)
55 quid donation to the policeman’s ball
No lawyer but either way seem to solve your problem without breaking rules

There's nothing illegal about tampering with the power settings. Only the speed limit and use of independent throttle above 6km/hr applies.

P.S. Still waiting for your explanation about how to get a legal throttle with BBS**.

 

[Voltsnamps]

There are no UK laws to prevent ebike "tampering":

Brexitland rules?
if so, Bosch with a bit of tampering is way too easy, shits on your bbs01, why even bother ?
if you believe they can’t or won’t prove you’re a naughty fkr, also too easy but acknowledge your sin and go ahead, I’ll go quietly

 

[guerney]

Brexitland rules?
if so, Bosch with a bit of tampering is way too easy, shits on your bbs01, why even bother ?
if you believe they can’t or won’t prove you’re a naughty fkr, also too easy but acknowledge your sin and go ahead, I’ll go quietly

Why the hell would I want a Bosch?

to me there is no comparison between Bosch and Bafang for those that keep things, Bosch make throwaway stuff, Bafang sell spare parts.

 

[Ghost1951]

Sadly, a very naive thought.
when you click the tickbox acknowledging your rights, no warranty etc, the firmware is “marked”, neither seller nor Bafang take any responsibility fot tampering, not morally, legally nor financially.
more obviously anyone can use same software, compare to legit 250w specs and prove exactly what was changed.

Better yet, the clowns I read about, confessed (bragged?) about the tampering on the kraut forums, including their settings and sometimes phone pictures with their houses in shot. Would you believe even gpx files showing their (illegal) speeds and where.

can’t prove ? These guys jumped into jail, no-one here’s that stupid, I know but watch the Euro forums for rules and methods

This is probably the most 'over-heated' scare nonsense I have ever seen here.

Nobody cares and nobody is going to look at your bike unless you do something really stupid and obviously a danger to the public. When I am in town, I daily see multiple Deliveroo electric motorbikes driving about on pavements. Nobody interferes. The police have much better things to do than bother a sensible rider or a person with obvious personality disorder like Guerney. One look at his orange mask and they run a mile.

Even if you did get stopped, what would even a well informed police officer be looking at? He or she would check to see what speed the bike seemed capable of. In my case, it shuts down at exactly 15 miles an hour - which is lower than the permitted speed for the class of assisted bicycles. If it has a throttle, they might even test to see if it ran at full speed or whether it cut off. Mine shuts down at 3 miles an hour and it only has enough power to walk the bike up a rough track too difficult to ride on. They might look at the motor to see if it is stamped with the wattage. Mine has 250 engraved on it by the manufacturer.

In all ways my bike complies with the demands of the law in regard to power, speed and the necessity to pedal it to get any assistance.

 

[Voltsnamps]

There's nothing illegal about tampering with the power settings. Only the speed limit and use of independent throttle above 6km/hr applies.

P.S. Still waiting for your explanation about how to get a legal throttle with BBS**.

I’m not a policeman, lawyer nor barrister but try
grandfather rights
55 quid donation to policeman’s ball
osf with variable pas, I like this
Argue with law, not me

 

[Az.]

Brexitland rules?

Nah... Whole Europe. Whole world probably too. You can change parameters of your motor as much as you want with exceptions mentioned by Seneagle. Worst case scenario you can void warranty,

 

[Ghost1951]

Why the hell would I want a Bosch?

From what I have heard and read, those Bosch 250 watt motors are FAR more powerful than that. It is about like when VW faked the tests of some of their diesel cars and committed fraud against the legal authorities and the public who they sold them to.

But you are right. Who wants to have their pockets picked by a predatory company charging vastly too much and preventing their customers from getting sensibly priced repair and refurbishment. You get robbed all the way if you buy into those brands.

 

[Ghost1951]

I’m not a policeman, lawyer nor barrister but try
grandfather rights
55 quid donation to policeman’s ball
osf with variable pas, I like this
Argue with law, not me

Are you feeling OK?

You come over a bit - well - upset....

 

[Voltsnamps]

PAX
last time I tried to help, I was called out for illegal
never ever would I intend that, I hate ,seriously hate , dangerous modifications