Thata's one of the problems of crank-drive motors. they all have different power curves, and you need to find one that produces its max power at a cadence that suits you. Bafang is a bit low, and so is TSDZ02. Bosch is better.
How much battery sag is too much for a 3 year old battery?
- Thread starter Ghost1951
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The main reason that I didn't spot that it was cadence (because I knew it would shut down if I pedalled fast) is that the way mine is currently set up, it takes a full four seconds to wack up the power when it decides to do it. I was in a low gear because of the steep incline, so, when I wondered, 'Am I pedalling so fast it won't help me and slowed the cadence down', I was expecting it to change pretty quickly and start to help. When it didn't, I just started spinning again, because the bike was slowing down.
I need to find out which parameter in the settings controls the time lag for the help kicking in.
I think it's "Start degree", but I don't need to change this for my uses - if that's the parameter, the delay between the cease of walk assist and the start of pedal assist might be reduced, which could be useful for hill starts. Star degree is currently 4 on mine, I could try setting that to 2.
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I've tried to disable my throttle - and thought I had, but the throttle now operates as a sort of feeble 'walk' throttle. It has no power to propel the bike when I am on it, but it does walk the bike at about four miles an hour.
I think, from what I have read, that 'Start up Degree - signal number' is to do with the number of magnets which are counted passing the sensor before the motor kicks in. My setting is '4', so it is definitely not holding back the power rolling on when my speed begins to drop on a slope. Thee are a lot of magnets on the rotating part of the apparatus and I know when I start off from rest , power begins to be applied in about a quarter of a turn of the crank. The issue I am thinking about here is teh way power comes in when i am going along and power has been wound back either because my cadence is high, or I am over my speed cut off point of 15 mph. I feel the bike begin to slow and am pedalling and the power takes four seconds to come back in again and I see the power meter move to whatever level it should be for the pas setting.
It isn't a big deal, I just think it would be better if it came in in a second or two rather than four.
These are the settings as they now are:
I think, from what I have read, that 'Start up Degree - signal number' is to do with the number of magnets which are counted passing the sensor before the motor kicks in. My setting is '4', so it is definitely not holding back the power rolling on when my speed begins to drop on a slope. Thee are a lot of magnets on the rotating part of the apparatus and I know when I start off from rest , power begins to be applied in about a quarter of a turn of the crank. The issue I am thinking about here is teh way power comes in when i am going along and power has been wound back either because my cadence is high, or I am over my speed cut off point of 15 mph. I feel the bike begin to slow and am pedalling and the power takes four seconds to come back in again and I see the power meter move to whatever level it should be for the pas setting.
It isn't a big deal, I just think it would be better if it came in in a second or two rather than four.
These are the settings as they now are:
Your "Start degree" is also 4, same as mine. I've speculated about this in post #34 and #43, and might try setting that parameter to 2 at some point, to see if pedal assist activates faster - this could be handy for starting again after having suddenly been stopped in too high a gear, as I could use "Walk assist" temporarily, also potentially useful for hill starts.
By the way, there's a warning about "Slow-start mode", which is 3 on your bike.
"Slow-start Mode(1-8): 4
This setting will decide how fast the current will increase when accelerating. I recommend 4, because this is a nice sweet spot. If you increase slow start, your start will be really slow and jerky. If you decrease slow start, you will accelerate faster. But you also risk damaging or breaking your controller. So I recommend just leaving it to 4."
https://edrivenet.com/bafang-programming/
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Does sound likely that'd pass the rozzer's roadside wheel off the ground throttle no-load speed test.
Yes - well noted on the slow start parameter.I already decided to change that back to 4 on reading about this on other sites. It is probably worth saying, that I have been trying to ride this setup in PAS2 and occasionally 3 on hills. This means in PAS2, I am drawing about 130 watts and in PAS3 250 watts. I only went above that in the last sixty or so miles as an experiment and not for long, so all in all, my battery and controller are running gently - but yes - you are correct about slow start. My max amps is also quite low and is only ever approached when the battery is almost empty and the voltage has dropped off. 500 watts (rarely used at 39 volts is 12.8 amps. At 33 volts, the same power is just over 15 amps.
The throttle as now set up tries to walk the bike at a slightly fast pace, but it is weak and easily held back Set up like mine, it would be USELESS for getting a fast start. It won't pull me up the slightest incline because the amps out was set to zero, though for some reason it is not showing in that page.Maybe I did not load that from the controller when I connected up. Ignore that part. I think it is likely not correct as shown (throttle settings only - the rest is correct(.
Your throttle is set to Level 0, which on your bike draws 10% current. 1.6A isn't going to help climb hills much. There's no speed limit entered in the throttle section, so if speed is not limited by the throttle's lowest default ie 15kph (which it'll never reach with 1.6A), it could perhaps be limited by speed of your Level 0. The throttle is also set to speed control. I'm wondering if throttle would provide more effective uphill enablement with current control, particularly if you increased the current limit for Level 0. Alternatively, you could increase throttle/Level 0 current to 100%, then limit percentage of speed limit for Level 0.
24% of 25kph = 6kph.
I'll try this myself at some point, but it could be a fruitless attempt to limit the throttle to 6kph.
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Thanks for thinking about this issue. But for me, when I discovered that I could not set the throttle below about 9 miles an hour, and since my main intention in programming the thing was to make it comply with the legal restrictions, I just wanted to disable the throttle entirely.
Now you have made the deductions above, I might set the PAS 0 amps to zero amps, because in the time I have had the bike, I only used 'walk' once when I was going up a sheep track which as so steep and rough, I could not ride the bike at all.
When I get back home, I will make a few changes to the settings, including the Start delay, which we discussed the other day. I am also tempted to reduce the 'Keep Current' to 80%. I don't want to hammer the mosfets in the controller or the battery. If I don't like the results, I can always go back and change it back. I reckon I can easily get a range of forty miles out of it still, even though the battery is three years old.
Hey - this just sunk in.... That's a good idea. I am going to try that. Scrub the above comment. I had not properly grasped this point.
What you suggested would give you a powerful get away throttle. On the other hand, it would need you to arrive at a junction and set the PAS to 0, in order to take advantage of it.
I've just set the parameters as mentioned, and the throttle is now set to a low speed regardless of pedal assistance level being used, because it uses Level 0, which is now 100% of 18A, but 24% of the 25kph speed limit, current mode (for now). My battery is only at 36V at the moment... I'm only seeing about 3kph with the rear wheel off the ground, while using a faulty throttle, because I can't at this present moment find my new one. I'll give the battery a charge at some point, and see if the throttle is limited to 6kph, also to see if it provides useful power for hill starts etc.
I've also set "Start degree" to 2 instead of 4, for faster pedal assistance activation - if the throttle doesn't do much, maybe the delay between the end of walk assist and the start of pedal assist will be reduced. At the moment, after I let go of the walk assist button while riding the bike, I've slowed down too much by the time pedal assist starts for it to be worth bothering with.
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I have had quite a bit of fun messing about with these settings considering the low cost of the cable which was about £9 delivered. You helped a lot by sending the web page which works with my chromebook and your advice on settings.
I'd largely forgotten about the throttle because I don't use one, but your firmware tinkerings have prompted me to look at the throttle again. Maybe our BBS01Bs can have legal throttles after all? It'd be nice if they provided useful power at 6kph max without pedalling. This angle of stab at the problem really should have occurred to me before lol.
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Walk assist tops out at 2.7kph with no load.
I was puzzled as to why the above firmware finagling resulted in about 3.7kph no load speed using throttle, when speed should be 24% of 25kph = 6kph.
I guessed that the throttle speed percentage when designated to a pedal assistance level, was being applied to lowest possible throttle speed, which is 15kph. 3.7kph must be 24% of something: 24% of 15kph is 3.75kph.
40% of 15kph = 6kph, and that works! My BBS01B throttle is now limited to 6kph!
The throttle has been designated to Level 0, which is 100% current and 40% of 15kph, not a percentage of 25kph as initially assumed - this distinction isn't made clear in any documentation I've seen.
Road test soon, but it's a lively Saturday night and the roads are teeming with substance maddened drivers.
I was puzzled as to why the above firmware finagling resulted in about 3.7kph no load speed using throttle, when speed should be 24% of 25kph = 6kph.
I guessed that the throttle speed percentage when designated to a pedal assistance level, was being applied to lowest possible throttle speed, which is 15kph. 3.7kph must be 24% of something: 24% of 15kph is 3.75kph.
40% of 15kph = 6kph, and that works! My BBS01B throttle is now limited to 6kph!
The throttle has been designated to Level 0, which is 100% current and 40% of 15kph, not a percentage of 25kph as initially assumed - this distinction isn't made clear in any documentation I've seen.
Road test soon, but it's a lively Saturday night and the roads are teeming with substance maddened drivers.
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Yes that sounds reasonable. I have done what you said, and found that the power out on throttle is only suitable for walking the bike up a hill and not for a smart pull out onto a road or a hill start. Really feeble power only available with the settings we discussed.I was puzzled as to why the above firmware finagling resulted in about 3.7kph no load speed using throttle, when speed should be 24% of 25kph = 6kph.
I guessed that the throttle speed percentage when designated to a pedal assistance level; being applied to lowest possible throttle speed, which is 15kph. 3.7kph must be 24% of something: 24% of 15kph is 3.75kph.
40% of 15kph = 6kph, and that works! My BBS01B throttle is now limited to 6kph!
The throttle has been designated to Level 0, which is 100% current and 40% of 15kph, not a percentage of 25kph as initially assumed - this distinction isn't made clear in any documentation I've seen.
Road test soon, but it's a lively Saturday night and the roads are teeming with substance maddened drivers.
However, a weird thing happened when I was testing the walking of the bike when the LCD was set on higher pas settings. Walking along fine at a smart walking pace and in PAS 4 or 5 (5 is my max and equivalent to 9) the pedals would gently turn on their own and suddenly, the damned bike shot forward hard when I let the 'walking throttle' off. Might have been the START degree 2 picking up the very gentle pedal movement that was not induced by pedalling, because I was walking by the bike. You can imagine that the one second burst was a bit dramatic. I was glad it wasn't a powerful motor.
Anyway, I have toned down my amp settings in pas 0 to 10% of max amps, in case that happens again.
Maybe that START DEGREE2 is not too good an idea. I think the pedals gently rotating was due to a little drag in the motor freewheel assembly when the throttle was being used to walk the bike and when I stopped it just reverted straight to whatever power was set at the PAS level which happened to be high.
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And that's why I always switch the bike off when walking it through long grass lol. The damned thing rearing up on it's back wheel like a wild horse was disconcerting, and that was with "Start degree" at 4. Does sound likely that the time delay between the throttle ceasing and pedal assist starting, has been reduced.
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I’m really glad to hear that happened testing safely , not after walking across busy road into a load of pedestrians. Exactly why “tampering” with ebikes is illegal in Europe, jail time even. Not sure about uk law but in the event of a death you can be sure tampering will be frowned upon.
I personally don’t like quick start pas anyway but more importantly, the w/a reverting to high pas is risky. Best to hit - several times until you know it’s in 0 pas before long press for w/a. Then no risk of this happening
That firmware parameter changes using the configurator have been made/patched by the end-user, can't be proven - there is no file version history, it's a hack. For all anyone can know, the seller could have made configuration changes. Firmware replacement can be proven. There's no open source firmware replacement for the BBS01B, unfortunately.
"Start Degree" was originally 20, which was much too slow. Max is 20, 24 is a full rotation.
The BBS01B is a great little motor, but unfathomably badly set up by Bafang or sellers - I almost demanded a refund after my first ride, fortunately Penoff's configurator is available. I'm not at all surprised so many programmers have bricked their BBSXXX controllers trying to determine how to change firmware parameters. They've done a great service to ebike-kind; prevented at least one highly irate and vengeful enraged orange and fanged customer with many deeply troubling and persistent psychotherapy resistant issues angrily demanding a full refund from one seller.
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Your "Start Current" is 20%. Makes U-turns easier with that set to 10% - there's no joltiness.
Pedal assist hasn't activated while walking the bike on pavements, which could be due to my folded down pedals not being knocked by my legs. Quite an alarming outcome walking the bike thrrough long grass, as mentioned above. If 24 is a full rotation, I guess Start Degree set to "4" is 60° and "2" is 30°. I'll do a road test soon, to see how safe pedal assist is ridden.
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