How many electric bikes do you see out on the roads?

[fishingpaul]

electric bikes on the road

i live in birmingham, i have seen several powabykes, 1 thompson an electrobike,an ezee torq, and a giant suede the same as my bike,i have also seen a lafree in evesham.considering birmingham is the second city there are few electric dealers.

 

[silversurfer]

mountain bikes up snowdon

Hi Derrick7,
I stand corrected, 8 years away from the job has obviously seen some sensible changes such as this route. An excellent system to allow bikes and walkers to enjoy the scenery and, looking at the map they are not having to pedal up the last bit of the Pyg track! If I were 10 years younger with a better ticker I would love to have a go at it.

Sorry 50 cycles, but we used to have lots of problems in the Peak Nat. Park with magazine articles encouraging off road biking (and motor bikes) on inappropriate routes. However it would be useful to have some public guidance by 50 cycles on the suitability of bikes such as the Torq to tackle scrabbley, shale surfaced cycle tracks. My Torq's out of grantee. so a broken crankshaft would be disastrous ! Silvesurfer

 

[flecc]

The Torq's manual makes it clear that it's not to be used off road. Obviously with care it could be used as Ian does, but there are risks.

I've suffered a shattered battery platform on road, riding slowly across a road calming platform consisting of small rectangular blocks, chocolate bar style. Clearly riding slowly on stony or pebbled conditions could do the same.

Like all hub motors, the spindle is hollow and thin walled for the 8 wire cable to enter the motor, so is a much weaker affair than a normal bike spindle. Worse still, it's flatted on both sides to provide an anti rotation measure, so is even weaker there. Again this could break with a large impact. You can judge how thin the spindle walls are from this photo of the Quando spindle. The Torq has the same motor, but with the spindle shorter for the front wheel position:

 

[derrick7]

Mountain bikes up Snowdon - an aside

When the park authority drew up this voluntary agreement (about 5 years ago)
they made it known that if it was ever abused it would have the force of law behind it!
So far it hasn't.

Derrick - Llanberis

 

[Ian]

The Torq's manual makes it clear that it's not to be used off road. Obviously with care it could be used as Ian does, but there are risks.

Thats a very point Flecc but I believe with care the risks can be minimal. When on rough ground I tend to be traveling fairly slowly and keeping a good lookout for holes and rocks, however while on the road I'm often going much faster with eyes on the traffic rather than the road, this is when I've hit the really big pot-holes that have had me checking the bike for damage.

My Torq came with metal shims under the battery platform to ensure even support fron the aluminium plate below, however I still felt there was room for improvement.. so improvement was done.

 

[flecc]

My Torq came with metal shims under the battery platform to ensure even support fron the aluminium plate below, however I still felt there was room for improvement.. so improvement was done.

Mine was the same Ian, and that helped the failure, so like you I improved the mounting.

I agree on what you've said about cross country, but when asked for advice on this, as I was by silversurfer, I'm naturally cautious and bear in mind the eZee manual instructions. I don't want to be the cause of a very costly problem like a motor spindle failure, so I always stress caution and slow use only on other than metalled surfaces.

There's a market for a moderately priced simple mid-motor and battery e-bike with full suspension for use on the rough stuff, but it remains unsatisfied at present. The first to bring one out at a perfectly possible price under £500 should clean up.
.

 

[Ian]

There's a market for a moderately priced simple mid-motor and battery e-bike with full suspension for use on the rough stuff, but it remains unsatisfied at present. The first to bring one out at a perfectly possible price under £500 should clean up.
.

Well it would give the downhill mtb'ers an alternative to the 4WD way to the top.

 

[DBCohen]

The Torq's manual makes it clear that it's not to be used off road. Obviously with care it could be used as Ian does, but there are risks.

Which is deeply ironic for a bike with an MTB-style frame...

 

[flecc]

Which is deeply ironic for a bike with an MTB-style frame...

Yes, something I hadn't missed and true of so many "style" e-bikes with hub motors.

I think the MTB style is as much a convenience as anything else though, given the need for a tall battery to rise between twin tubes and have enough battery case above for a hand hold. A horizontal crossbar normal diamond frame can't fit that need, and the straighter line from rear spindle through to the headstock gives more load bearing strength to carry the weight and forces of an e-bike.

Also more discomfort!
.

 

[jac]

nice to see new bikes made by ohm bikes in canada and sold by nyce wheels in new york one of their bikes is sold as of road bike although rather more than the price flecc is talking about

jim

 

[flecc]

Not the same thing I mentioned Jim, and still no use for rough off road, despite the claim.

For real off road, the motor as well as the battery has to be mid mounted and suspended, not unsuspended in the wheel where the flimsy hollow spindles can snap. The motor also needs to have very good low speed torque for rough off road use.

Like so many bikes from Canada, those use the BionX motor, which is about the least suitable for off road that I could think of, very poor low speed torque and needing pedalling up to speed to get motor drive.

The off road one might look good, but the design is poor for the purpose and one of the worst for the type due to that wrongly specified motor.
.

 

[jac]

surely they are reasonably confident of their product if they are giving a 2 year warranty on everthing other than battery

 

[Ian]

I don't think any thrill seeking mountain biker would entertain an electric bike, they get their kicks either going downhill at 4 times the speed most e-bikes are capable of, or doing jumps that require lightness and strength simply unachievable with electric bikes. Those that want power do it with off-road motorcycles, much more powerful than any e-bike.

 

[flecc]

That's a common warranty the other side of the atlantic Jim, but less usual here. However, all warranties have misuse clauses, and that's invariably the get out.

However, that's not the point I was making, it was just about what is right and wrong for the purpose.

Though ignored by manufacturers of hub motor bikes, unsprung weight should always be minimal, and that becomes much more important for off road traction with suspension. That alone rules out a wheel motor for off road use, but added to that is the weakness of some crucial motor parts in hub motors. The main one is the hollow spindle, strong enough for on road and moderate impacts, but definitely not up to the sort of severe impact that can be experienced on really rough stuff.

A BionX motor is wrong for the purpose on both those counts, but it's even less suitable since there's little low speed torque. For example, try a twisting climb between trees on a deep rutted path with tree roots above surface and it has to be done at very low speeds, but that direct drive motor has no pulling power at very low speeds. A rider would be better off on a normal mountain bike, or even a normal epicyclic geared hub motor.

It would be a satisfactory bike on a not too rough trail which could be taken at reasonable speeds, but for trials style stuff, useless.

P.S. I've just seen Ian's post above, and he's quite right that it's best on trials/moto cross motorbikes, something I competed on throughout my twenties.

However, a good simulation of that is possible with a powerful mid motor and battery in a dual suspended bike, the rear suspension a bit on the stiff side for rider pedalling efficiency. I've got a number of very rough gully bridle paths through woodlands in the very hilly downs area, and I'd like such a bike for those. One reason is that where I'm situated means a 2.5 mile long detour north through congested heavily trafficked urban roads for one of the main routes south, but there's a handy but very bad half mile bridlepath which can cut out all that and drop me straight into a peaceful lane going south on the route I want.
.

 

[jac]

hi yes it was more the rough track or tow path i was talking about rather than proper mountain biking i supose you are talking about a poor mans opti bike which seems to be set up the way you are saying

jim

 

[flecc]

That's right Jim, what I'd call real off road stuff. As Ian remarked previously, our roads can be as bad as the smoother "off road" paths and tracks, with potholes, recessed rain covers and speed bumps etc, so I class all that the same.

To me off road is almost anything else, obstructions, water splashes, rocky gullies, slippery tree roots, mud etc. That sort of stuff often can't be taken at speed, so good low speed power is needed, something hub motors aren't good at and direct drive worst of all. And they aren't strong enough for that anyway. The Ohm bike would manage ok on the sort of track Ian's photo above shows, though a geared hub motor would still be better for that.
.

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi folks
saw a Gazelle Easy Glider today in southampton common it was chained to a lamp post i was going to stop and have a nose but was doing 22mph and didnt want to loose my speed still it was good to see a different electric bike and a good one at that

 

[Branwen]

Hi folks
saw a Gazelle Easy Glider today in southampton common it was chained to a lamp post i was going to stop and have a nose but was doing 22mph and didnt want to loose my speed still it was good to see a different electric bike and a good one at that

I have the Gazelle Easyglider at the moment on demonstration, its a good bike and comparable with my old one for spec and performance, though its got a big frame for me. I'm only 5'2" tall and am forced to stand on tippy toes at the lights if there is no pavement to lean on. It goes like limo not a porshe, stately more than zippy, but comfortable as all get out with it. I got my zippy small framed Lafree Twist Lite 5 years ago and only saw 3 other people with electric bikes in the first year. I got stopped and asked about mine about ten times that often though, and know of four people I have spoken to who now have an electric bike after seeing mine, including a fella I see a lot locally who took the plunge and bought Halfords own brand electric bike today.

 

[flecc]

Hello Branwen, if you get a chance to get feedback on that Halfords bike we'd be very interested. The one I've heard of uses the Sparc rear wheel motor, but I haven't seen one in my areas branches. I think it's branded as a Carrera.
.

 

[Branwen]

Will do Flecc. The guy that owns the Halford bike lives near me, he saw mine outside a secondhand shop one day, about 4 months ago, and thinking it was for sale he came in to ask how much it was. He joined the forum after that chat to look into getting a bike of his own, and this is him just getting one now. I have mentioned before to him to post reviews as he test rode a lot of bikes before deciding, but I will mention it again.

He stopped by my work to show his new bike to me this week, and said he wondered what he was going to talk about now he had gotten one, but at that point two people came up asking him to explain electric bikes to him, so I dont think thats going to be a problem. It's been the same for me, wherever I stop people ask about it, but since the Scotsman ran their article, people all say its the future now when they see mine, whereas before they were a bit worried about new technology.

Despite having the Easyglider for four days, I am still happier on my old bike, especially since the battery pack was re-celled. Even at five years old it performs as well as the Easyglider, though not as quietly, it really had a very silent motor on it. Pity my old faithful won't last forever, and will have to be replaced at some point. Sigh.