How long should my ebike chain last?

[Artstu]

The MZ Simson moped had a fully enclosed chain with flexible rubber tubes, and the sprocket and chain stayed in place on the swing-arm when the wheel was removed, and yes the chain never needed any attention.

Mike Burrows GRP city bike had a fully enclosed chain, I guess it never made production. Or did it, the Gocycle could be it.

 

[SRS]

Trouble is that they are unpopular in the UK due to the complication of removing a rear wheel. Some full enclosures are very poor in this respect.

But there's no doubt about the benefits. Best of all years ago were the Sunbeam totally enclosed oilbath chaincases which ran the chain through oil at the bottom of of the chainwheel. With no dirt of any kind and perfect lubrication, in those the chains and sprockets lasted indefinitely, seemingly unable to wear out.

Flecc you are right, not popular.

Yes they do make wheel removal more difficult but by clever design this could be made easier.

I believe it is more to do with fashion and street cred.

Honda knew something about chain life when they designed the C90. Sure it wasn't cool but it was very good at what it did.

 

[EddiePJ]

The MZ Simson moped had a fully enclosed chain with flexible rubber tubes, and the sprocket and chain stayed in place on the swing-arm when the wheel was removed, and yes the chain never needed any attention.

Mike Burrows GRP city bike had a fully enclosed chain, I guess it never made production. Or did it, the Gocycle could be it.

I remember the MZ Simpson.

They were for the astute buyer. When I look back it, we all should have had one of those. It would have probably have been a hell of a lot more reliable than my spark plug eating Puch MV50 Grandprix.

As kids we also used to ride around on oil bath 1950's or 1960's bikes, and from what I recall the chains were always seemingly perfect.

I think that the biggest issue with any bike chain is that unless you have an enclosed geared hub, we are all asking too much from a chain. Expecting a chain to transfer load sideways as we change up and down gears is never going to help with wear issues. It was also drummed into me to keep the driveline as straight as possible when riding, which is complete common sense, but I wonder how often that people don't.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Many motorbikes made wheel removable easy by leaving the sprocket in place. The BSA Gold Flash was one example. The sprocket had a hollow stub axle, through which the main pin passed. IIRC, The Honda CD175 and most of their other small commuters had the same arrangement. I don't ever remember taking the chain-guard off to remove the wheel. In fact I don't think you had to take it off to change the chain.

You could easily make a single-sided rear like Cannondale do on their front. I have that arrangement on my Honda NVT. It takes less than a minute to take the wheel off.

 

[flecc]

Yes, we've had a few front and rear single sided bicycles giving easy tyre removal and in the odd case wheel removal too. Including the GoCycle of course, the Giant Halfway folder and the Mike Burrows designs; 8freight, Ratcatcher, Citybike etc. On his last city bike design the chaincase was the structural rear chainstay as well.

 

[mike killay]

I think that we have to accept that mechanically speaking, the derailleur is horrible and heavy chain and sprocket wear is inevitable.
Unfortunately, there are not enough ebikes around to make alternatives financially sensible to manufacturers.
Sturmey Archer made a three speed hub including a clutch prior to the first World War for motorcycles, so there is hope!
The problem for ebikes is making a hub gear with sufficiently wide a range of ratios. On the other side of the coin, electric hub motors are improving and may one day challenge the hill climbers of the crank driver variety.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

On the other side of the coin, electric hub motors are improving and may one day challenge the hill climbers of the crank driver variety.

They already do. Try the KTM P series, or the more powerful Kudos, Ezee and Woosh variants - and there's more to come,

 

[flecc]

electric hub motors are improving and may one day challenge the hill climbers of the crank driver variety.

A hub motor only really needs two gears to be able to match any crank drive's motor ability in any road circumstances, particularly for e-bikes conforming to the pedelec legal assist speed limit. Trying to fit in two gears with a capable hub motor within bicycle frame confines while allowing for a derailleur cassette is the real problem. SRAM's two speed hub motor can only manage to have a single rider gear for example.

Probably the best solution is a two speed hub motor with the rider's gears integrated into the bottom bracket in hub gear fashion. The latter has been tried, but there are weight and bulk problems and it's difficult to obtain wide gear ranges.

Or have the two speed hub motor in the front wheel.

 

[mike killay]

I recently bought a Woosh Gale folder. With its 20 inch wheels, its top speed is only 12 mph. What shocked me was just how well it climbs hills.
It seems obvious that if the motor had two gears, the first slightly lower than present and the higher one allowing 15mph then things would be fine.
Putting the motor in the front wheel and having say 4 widely spaced hub gears at the back would be ideal.
Like all small folders, the Gale pedalling gears are too low and even at 12mph I am spinning like mad. But that is easily rectified

 

[trex]

xiongda makes a front hub XD motor. It has two reduction ratios, 4 to 1 and 8 to 1. It's the black one in the middle of the picture.
http://xiongdamotor.en.alibaba.com/product/1520641981-220560510/Double_speed_Motor.html

Shemozzle discussed it earlier.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/dual-speed-motor.16634/

 

[flecc]

Yes, I noticed that Xionda and with a claimed 600 watts max it looks powerful enough for the job. I wonder how robust it is with motor and gears packed into that small space though.

Of course although this solves the rear wheel gear problems with two speed hub motors, I do also wonder about traction problems in the lower gear with front wheel drive.

 

[trex]

I am a little concerned about the longevity of the Xiongda XD. Clutch failure is the most frequent fault in hub motors, if one of the two clutches failed, it may be expensive to repair.
There isn't probably be a 'best' motor solution, rear hubs are prone to breaking spokes, front hubs may lose traction on very steep hills, crank motors may stretch your chain.

 

[flecc]

There isn't probably be a 'best' motor solution, rear hubs are prone to breaking spokes, front hubs may lose traction on very steep hills, crank motors may stretch your chain.

Indeed, it adds up to the fact that e-bikes are a mass of compromises, rather than a vehicle type designed from bottom up.

 

[El Champiero]

KMC won't thank you for saying that

http://www.kmcchain.eu/maintenance

That's really odd - I really can't see how KMC can justify that about chain cleaning devices. Why should their chain be any different from all the others?

 

[Artstu]

That's really odd - I really can't see how KMC can justify that about chain cleaning devices. Why should their chain be any different from all the others?

I don't know, but they certainly don't like them. Your regime certainly works for you, like you say odd.

 

[jackhandy]

Seems to be the use of solvent they're warning against - which makes sense to me, as it would wash out the residual lube from deep in the rollers.

 

[El Champiero]

Yes - that looks like it. I always make sure I use non toxic chain cleaner and then rinse it 3 times with hot water in the chain cleaning device before drying it with a clean rag and then lubing it.

 

[Woosh]

john f,

We have replacement chains in stock priced at £5 plus £5 P and P.
These have 126 links, the correct length for Woosh CD bikes. Don't buy the 116 versions commonly found on Ebay or Amazon.
With regard to maintenance, the chain should be kept clean but you should avoid anything that would strip off or damage the factory wax coating.
Even some lubricants can do this.
Once this protective wax has gone, the chain will wear out quickly together with the freewheel and chainring.
If you are only going to ride the bike on asphalt roads, don't do anything to the chain by way of maintenance.
If you insist on lubricant, use KMC's own brand.
A new CD chain should last for about 1,500 - 2,000 miles.

Hatti

 

[mike killay]

Hatti,
I bought a sram chain last time and it was covered in a thick gluey substance. It meant that it would not change gear until I cleaned it.
Mike

 

[D C]

Everyone will have their own way of looking after the chain, I've always taken the chain off when it gets mucky and put it in a coffee jar with a little petrol, shaken it up to loosen the oily dirt then replaced the petrol with hot soapy water and shaken up again till clean.
Then after drying with a cloth I put it back in the coffee jar and cover with used car engine oil and leave for a while to penetrate.
Then I remove the chain and leave it to drain, sometimes overnight, then wipe off the surplus oil and refit.
It's easier than it sounds providing a sram powerlink is fitted and my chains last for years and thousands of miles.
As I cycle mainly off road, keeping the chain free of dirt is a must, sadly the wax coating on a new chain would only last me a couple of rides. I don't see any problem with using solvent as long as it's completely removed and replaced with lubricant.