Hill climbing with throttle kalkhoff alternative

[Skinnyfatbloke]

Hello. I'm looking for an e-bike for my wife so that we can go out cycling together. She enjoys cycling but gets super tired super easily, and so on a regular bike hills are a complete no no. Yesterday she test rode a kalkhoff agattu 8, though if we were to go for a kalkhoff, it would have to be the 7 as our budget is about £1500+/-300. She said it was a really nicely built, comfortable bike but that it required too much of her own steam to go up hill.

So my question is: what else around the same price point could we go for that a) gives more assistance on hills, and preferably b) has a throttle? She may eventually build up the strength and stamina for the peddle assist but for the foreseeable future she'll need the bike to do nearly all of the work on hills.

She is 5'6" and very slim. She wants a step through town bike.

Thank you very much for any ideas you can share. Some of the bikes I've seen mentioned on these forums include oxygen e-mate, roodog chic, freego Eagle. Are any of those better than a kalkhoff, particularly on hills?
Finally, we live in Lancashire so if you happen to know where we might be able to try them out nearby, that would be doubly great. Thanks again.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Woosh Big Bear stepthrough is absolutely superb for what you want. It's very powerful and very comfortable. You just pedal along and watch the world go by.

The Oxygen is also a very nice bike. It's not as pwerful as the Woosh, but somehow it's just a very pleasant bike to ride. Oxygen have a new bike, which may already be on sale. I know it's imminent. It'll be a bit more powerful that the Emate I think, though I haven't tried one yet.

Ezee bikes are also pretty good for what you want. The one with the 20" wheels is a good climber?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi SFB,

Dave is right both the above are good bikes. The big bear in particular is good looking, retro, it very much reminds me of our original design in 2007. You may also want to try the new 2016 Wisper 705Torque, it's a very good hill climber and extremely stable.

The best advice, as always, is try a few bikes and brands before you buy.

All the best and good luck in your search.

David

 

[JuicyBike]

...and you can try the 705 Torque just south of Manchester at our Trade Centre which you can find listed here, with local hills, our Juicy range and Raleigh too. You'd be very welcome to compare all.

 

[Skinnyfatbloke]

Thank you both for your recommendations. The big bear ls is £700 cheaper than the Kalkhoff agattu 7. What accounts for the price difference? Does it come with a 2 year warranty on the battery? Do you get a noticeably better/more reliable/longer lasting bike by spending the extra cash?

Thanks again.

 

[flecc]

Thank you both for your recommendations. The big bear ls is £700 cheaper than the Kalkhoff agattu 7. What accounts for the price difference? Does it come with a 2 year warranty on the battery? Do you get a noticeably better/more reliable/longer lasting bike by spending the extra cash?

Thanks again.

Among all the reasons are two key ones. First the Woosh is made in China, the Kalkhoff in Germany, so the costs involved are very different. Second is that the Chinese hub motor in the Woosh is simpler to make than the German crank drive unit of the Kalkhoff.

I don't know the Woosh battery warranty period. Its replacement cost is far lower than the Kalkhoff one though, so a discrepancy in life doesn't necessarily mean a higher cost.
.

 

[Tomtomato]

The big bear ls is £700 cheaper than the Kalkhoff agattu 7. What accounts for the price difference?

The various mechanical components (e.g. drivetrain) are also of a very different quality/grade.

 

[D8ve]

Thank you both for your recommendations. The big bear ls is £700 cheaper than the Kalkhoff agattu 7. What accounts for the price difference? Does it come with a 2 year warranty on the battery? Do you get a noticeably better/more reliable/longer lasting bike by spending the extra cash?

Thanks again.

Test ride both without power. The kalkhoff will retain a high value but generally I wouldn't expect either to fail in a rush.
I enjoyed the ride on my Panasonic powered bikes. The difference might be a quality of ride but that might not be enough to justify the price difference to you?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Kalkhoffs are generally pretty reliable, but if something goes wrong or you break something somehow, the only way to get it fixed is to take it back to a Kalkhoff dealer, who will make appropriate charges unless covered by warranty. many parts are specific to the Kalkhoff, so can only be obtained from the dealer.

Everything on the Woosh Big Bear is standard and modular. because of that, all the parts are lower cost. You can get any of the parts from many different sources even if Woosh was unable to help you. You should be able to fix a Woosh bike yourself following simple instructions, whatever's wrong with it.

Both bikes are good bikes. The Big Bear can give you high power with little effort from yourself, so would be better for anyone that's over-weight and/or unfit or with any ailment that prevents normal pedal effort. The Kalkhoff is generally a more refined bike. It can still give good power if you're a bit unfit or lacking strength in pedalling for any other reason, but probably unsuitable if you only have one leg.

Unless there's something physically special about you, what bike you choose depends more on your own mindset. It's very difficult to be objective in judging one bike against another.

 

[Tomtomato]

One is an electric moped and one is a ebike, with well integrated assistance (proportional to your pedaling/input). It depends what you are looking for.

However, I wouldn't try a Kalkhoff unless you are ready to buy on, as you may like it.

Only crank-driven bikes (e.g. Bosch, Panasonic and Kalkhoff/Impulse) will be having that proper integration of assistance, making the bike still feel like a bike.

 

[JuicyBike]

Only crank-driven bikes (e.g. Bosch, Panasonic and Kalkhoff/Impulse) will be having that proper integration of assistance, making the bike still feel like a bike.

Not strictly true since the introduction of torque sensor systems combined with hub motors , which have started to appear.
Reviews are few but those who have tried them report equivalent responsiveness. The Wisper TQ is an excellent example.

 

[trex]

if your wife tires easily, a torque sensor is not going to help.
I would suggest the Santana2.
Lightweight, good suspension, good brakes, Bafang BPM motor, long range, simple controls and a twist and go throttle.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana2

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Only crank-driven bikes (e.g. Bosch, Panasonic and Kalkhoff/Impulse) will be having that proper integration of assistance, making the bike still feel like a bike.

Sorry Tom, that's categorically untrue. The control system has nothing to do with the type of motor.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

if your wife tires easily, a torque sensor is not going to help.
I would suggest the Santana2.
Lightweight, good suspension, good brakes, Bafang BPM motor, long range, simple controls and a twist and go throttle.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/santana2

Not sure what the etiquette is here?

Maybe I am overstepping the mark?

The new Wisper Torque series of bikes work in a very similar way to the more expensive German models splicing information from the sensors and producing a very natural riding experience.

They also have the unique twin features of being able regulate the power by twisting the throttle and to turn off the torque system.

With the torque system turned off the bikes run on speed/cadence sensor alone. This a very much more basic system but will give the rider more power on flat roads as it does not rely on the pressure a rider is putting on the pedals to generate a signal to the motor.

All the best

David

 

[trex]

My comment (if your wife tires easily, a torque sensor is not going to help) is meant for TS only bikes, like most of the Kalkhoffs that the OP refers to in the opening of the thread.
I read somewhere that a throttle could be added to some Kalkhoffs.
your 905SE Torque has both TS and cadence sensor, therefore very suitable for the OP.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Trex,

For the sake of clarification, Wisper SE bikes have Cadence sensors, the Wisper Torque have both Cadence and Torque.

All the best

David

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

OP
Very similar story in our house.
After trying half a dozen bikes of various design ( hub / crank derailer/ crank hub gear) wife settled in a step through with Bosch crank drive and 8 speed hub gears . To be honest after trying this bike is was an easy decision . Great range, easy climbing and very smooth gear changing. Wife found clinbing quite severe hills with this no problem. She has done little cycling and none at all in past 25 years. She regularly completes 25 mile moderate rides now.
Golden rule us make sure you try bikes before purchase on routes you are likely to encounter. Yes the crank drive tend to be dearer but well worth it. They do exactly what they are supposed to do. Make cycling easy.

 

[Sheffmax]

The problem with trying a bike out is that there are no hills to speak of near our stockist. I tried out and bought a Freego Eagle but when I tried it on the hills near home I found I have to put in a lot of effort. The irksome hills are around the reservoirs in Sheffield.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Keep an eye for demo days .. James Cycles had one yesterday at Ringinglow in Peak District. I tried a full sus fat bike with Bosch cx crank drive. Incredible climbing ability.
In my opinion if you are wanting climbing ability go crank drive..
But don't take my word for it, borrow one. They are all superb( Bosch/ Yam/ Impulse)
And yes there are some mega climbs around Bower/ Howden/ Derwent reservoirs.. The one from Lady B to Lockerbrook farm takes you to some of best views in country!!! Stunning.

( Problem with James Cycles demo day was absolutely no hub drives to try tho, Orange, GT , Cube and Haibike were all in evidence , all with Crank Drive. ( nearly all Bosch, Haibike Bosch and Yamaha)

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Golden rule us make sure you try bikes before purchase on routes you are likely to encounter. Yes the crank drive tend to be dearer but well worth it. They do exactly what they are supposed to do. Make cycling easy.

Yes do try before you buy. A decent hub motor bike has advantages and disadvantages when compared to a crank drive machine. Hub drives also do what they are supposed to do, make cycling easy!

All the best

David