Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?

[Az.]

Aikema / Tongsheng have started to ship their TSDZ2B Turbo. It looks like the DM01. I have ordered some stock and will get them here in October. The price is about the same as Bafang BBS02 but with torque sensor and optional throttle. I am not bothered about whether their Turbo can take 750W, I just want the solidity.

Did you manage to get 250W motors?

 

[Lokz]

Ok, where did xou get info about it? Where did you order it? Is there any exploded specification document?
What comes in the kit? How many teeth chain wheel has?

Aikema / Tongsheng have started to ship their TSDZ2B Turbo. It looks like the DM01. I have ordered some stock and will get them here in October. The price is about the same as Bafang BBS02 but with torque sensor and optional throttle. I am not bothered about whether their Turbo can take 750W, I just want the solidity.

 

[Woosh]

It's the Tongsheng rep who sent me their new catalogue last month and asked me if I was interested. It should be on both Aikema and Tongsheng websites by now. I suspect the big Chinese wholesalers will advertise them very soon. Someone posted on this thread that it was previously known as the TSDZ8 and being sold on some websites.

 

[alexfnoble]

Hi all, just joined the tread. Finished reading all 31 pages so far. Shame about the bickering. Please less of this, it makes us UK lads look bad, we are not all like this.

I have installed the TSDZ2B on two bikes now. Largely impressed with it for the price. Had a play around with the internals. Such a cool invention.
The To7 kit interests me, however, it looks like it is in its infancy, so we need to give it more time in public use just like the TSDZ2 had.

To summarise it would seem these are the outstanding concerns at least from this forum:
- Firmware needs improving due to comments about torque sensing not being well implemented, correct me if I'm wrong.
- Distribution of the kit and parts seems to not be widely available, especially from the main/known distributors.
- Hardware breakdown seems a bit vague, especially for the hardcore in this group. This can only be expected as there would be some IP issues if all was to be exposed on a public forum.

@alexfnoble Where best to purchase from? I would be interested to do a side-by-side review.

You can send me a pm

 

[alexfnoble]

We know how to service the TSDZ2 and 'B' revision outside warranty thanks to the YT videos. We need to see how in practice the DM01 and DM02 can be serviced and where their weaknesses are. If there are any issues with IP, I expect Tongsheng/Aikema lawyers would deal with them, not the end users.

He means protecting our ip. Tongsheng have a history of getting sued for making copies...

 

[Woosh]

He means protecting our ip.

are you officially working for toseven or not?
The impression I have is toseven is represented by HighVoltageKits.

 

[guerney]

Would anyone volunteer to strip the TSDZ2B Turbo motor down and make a YT video?

I'm not volunteering, but it wouldn't be too difficult for you to do this yourself. He's using a Sony mirrorless (I think), but a cheap secondhand Canon 700D with it's kit lens would do the job, plus three LED light panels and a tripod:

https://uk.webuy.com

... just set the camera (which will only do 1080P, sufficient for youtube videos [although Youtube's compression may leave footage sharper at 1080P, if you upload 4k]) to Aperture Priority (Av using the dial), turn off autofocus, then focus at F8 or higher, so that everything looks sharp. You could use this to get better video quality:

Magic Lantern | Home

Magic Lantern is a free firmware addon for Canon EOS DSLR cameras that adds a host of features to assist photographers and videographers. Unlock your Canon DSLR.

magiclantern.fm

...then all you'd need is editing and titling, which means a little investment of time and money. You should also use a good quality external lapel or shotgun microphone, but you'd get the best quality sound using a separate audio recorder.

 

[Woosh]

. He's using a Sony mirrorless (I think), but a cheap secondhand Canon 700D with it's kit lens would do the job, plus three LED light panels and a tripod:

I am too old to learn new skills like making YT videos! On top of this, I am rubbish at taking anything apart and putting them back. I always end up with a small pile of leftovers, screws, nuts, washers...

 

[guerney]

I am too old to learn new skills like making YT videos!

Don't be daft, of course you can do it. The format of the teardown video is there to view and copy. You could do it with a phone and tripod - it'll probably shoot ok video if you have good lighting. People will forgive less than spectacular video quality, if it has good sound and is useful and/or interesting. With all the Youtube "How to" videos, there really isn't an excuse to not try.

On top of this, I am rubbish at taking anything apart and putting them back. I always end up with a small pile of leftovers, screws, nuts, washers...

You'd have a video recording of how to put it back together!

 

[saneagle]

There are very few reviews on Trustpilot. People are complaining of problems with warranty and faulty motors. I find it worrying, but I think I will take a risk and order kit from them as they have motor I want and price is good.

Did you buy anything from them?

Yes, I've bought loads of stuff from them without problems.

 

[Woosh]

You didn't have to send back anything though. Plus, you don't need any support so it's perfectly OK for you to buy from a wholesaler. Still, they shouldn't underdeclare the value of the invoice to give themselves a price advantage. That is true not only to me but also to those selling on ebay, amazon and aliexpress too.

 

[Woosh]

Cardiff flat owner gets tax bills for 11,000 Chinese firms - BBC News

should we avoid recommending suppliers who dodge VAT?

 

[Az.]

Cardiff flat owner gets tax bills for 11,000 Chinese firms - BBC News

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry... It is honestly pathetic.

 

[Woosh]

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry... It is honestly pathetic.

we are eternally optimistic and just don't like to know the downside of our choices.

 

[Az.]

we are eternally optimistic and just don't like to know the downside of our choices.

Yes, positive approach is a way to move forward. There is no way you can outsmart 11k Chinese companies... If you can't beat them, join them. What is this man's address again? You should register for VAT at his address too

One more brown envelope won't make a big difference to him anyway

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Cardiff flat owner gets tax bills for 11,000 Chinese firms - BBC News

should we avoid recommending suppliers who dodge VAT?

To be honest it's not something I've thought about before - I know there are rules around duty and import of goods bought abroad, I know a lot of Chinese suppliers have stock in the UK and EU and different rules apply - how would we recognise suppliers who dodge VAT and/or import duty ?

 

[Woosh]

it does not matter where the goods are kept, as long as the price advertised include the correct taxes. All the major platforms ebay, amazon, aliexpress, alibaba etc comply and mostly enforce payment of taxes.
The gripe I have is with only a few companies such as PSWPower that blatantly claim to 'save you money' by making invoices under the value you paid.

 

[Lokz]

There is no such catalogue on Aikema/Toseven websites.

It's the Tongsheng rep who sent me their new catalogue last month and asked me if I was interested. It should be on both Aikema and Tongsheng websites by now. I suspect the big Chinese wholesalers will advertise them very soon. Someone posted on this thread that it was previously known as the TSDZ8 and being sold on some websites.

 

[Woosh]

There is no such catalogue on Aikema/Toseven websites.

email info@aikema.com.cn
Here is the info on the TSDZ2B Turbo and a bit on their thru axle hub motor and hub with internal TS.

 

[u1v1w1]

Ah, I saw that one. Besides that video there is no info about it anywhere. If you want something more powerful and more expensive than TSDZ2B or DM02 - DM01 is the only thing on the market with torque sensing. Or you can go CYC motor route, but that is for double or triple price.

Is it worth getting DM-01 currently or is it better to wait until ToSeven is available everywhere like TSDZ2 and Bafang? Was forced to cancel CYC Photon due to delays and go for more robust tried and tested BBSHD. Unfortunately BBSHD developed some intermittent cadence sensor fault so had no other choice but to use throttle only since it's safer that way as there is no requirement to remember to reduce the PAS before taking off at turns (feathering brake cut-offs seems annoying). Using the motor on 17% hills only anyway while letting the chainring spin at the most efficient 170 RPM @ 15 mph (also improves balance and ability to climb hills in straight line especially in traffic). This leaves more pure leg power for the flat and short inclines while feeling fresher and more attentive at the end of 50 mile commute. Previously used TSDZ2 which for some reason caused saddle pressure sores. Probably pedalling with torque sensor doesn't relieve the saddle pressure since there is less lifting effect from peddalling. I guess the same effect would result from ToSeven DM-01 despite having less crank axle resistance and higher pitch noise than BBSHD judging by Lierskogen ebikes review.