I think it's better to wait until general availability. You know what you are getting with TSDZ02 and Bafang BBSes. There is no special innovation to justify early adoption of the DM01 and DM02.
Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?
- Thread starter Domm
- Start date
From German forum.
"I find the volume uncomfortable; even with low support I find the sound higher, somehow more metallic than the TSDZ2. This is perhaps due to the higher engine speed and the larger gear ratios that come with it. Otherwise, the gears should be the same: a nylon gear wheel and helical gearing ... maybe it will be quieter when the teeth have adjusted. :unsure:"
Mittelmotor mit Drehmomentsensor TOSEVEN DM01 und DM02 zum Nachrüsten bei PSW-Power
Wenn wir mit Toseven ins Geschäft kommen, möchten wir auch kleinteilig Ersatzteile anbieten, da gehören dann natürlich auch Controller dazu. Vielleicht schickt Toseven dann ja einen für Dich mit.
www.pedelecforum.de
I liked the comment from Jaykob (#128): I don't think that the Toseven engineer went to Tongsheng because he couldn't/wasn't allowed to fix the weaknesses there, only to screw it up on his own baby ;-)
the problem with the toseven project is they fixed the apparent hardware weaknesses of the TSDZ2 but they apparently don't have the ressources to create better code. If and when the seed money dries up, what would happen to the half finished project?
Also, they neglect the fact that the road legal market is where the money is.
Also, they neglect the fact that the road legal market is where the money is.
This also form the German forum and a few posts lower.
A poster throwing a cat amongst the pidgeons.
" I strongly suspect that the Chinese won't get any further with this thing and are now hoping for a miracle from you long-nosed people. The OEM customers have jumped ship. I would be interested to know how far they let you get to the software. From experience, they don't like to do that very much. First of all, because they are afraid of being punished, of betraying high technology to the enemy (that since you, compare communist manifesto "useful idiots"). This is not a joke. You probably don't even understand how nice it is in a constitutional state.
In any case, what I have read in English about the troupe does not make a particularly professional impression. They have built something that is a Tongsheng copy cleaned of completely obvious design flaws, but nothing more. Now they can't get the software to work at all and the money from the start-up is gone. The "torque control" has apparently degenerated into an "on-off" circuit. You've already noticed that.
I hope something will come of it. Nobody needs an even more expensive conversion kit than those that are already on the market. The finished bikes are getting better and cheaper and nothing is going forward with the hobbyists, except the prices. One can be curious."
A poster throwing a cat amongst the pidgeons.
" I strongly suspect that the Chinese won't get any further with this thing and are now hoping for a miracle from you long-nosed people. The OEM customers have jumped ship. I would be interested to know how far they let you get to the software. From experience, they don't like to do that very much. First of all, because they are afraid of being punished, of betraying high technology to the enemy (that since you, compare communist manifesto "useful idiots"). This is not a joke. You probably don't even understand how nice it is in a constitutional state.
In any case, what I have read in English about the troupe does not make a particularly professional impression. They have built something that is a Tongsheng copy cleaned of completely obvious design flaws, but nothing more. Now they can't get the software to work at all and the money from the start-up is gone. The "torque control" has apparently degenerated into an "on-off" circuit. You've already noticed that.
I hope something will come of it. Nobody needs an even more expensive conversion kit than those that are already on the market. The finished bikes are getting better and cheaper and nothing is going forward with the hobbyists, except the prices. One can be curious."
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The Tongsheng 'Turbo' version is well priced to sell against the BBS01 And BBS02. I really can't see where the DM01 would sell into.
If Toseven really have run out of money, making the code available is their best move! If their motors are physically robust, spare parts available, and they released the source code (or if it's reverse engineered wholly or in part - the torque sensor reportedly doesn't work, therefore IMHO it's highly unlikely there's enough motivation for hackers), it could prove popular with the deaf and power mad laws be damned crowd? (if price was also significantly reduced and they sold a very great many of them...)
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Certainly not on price in the competative market these two occupy, it doesn't bring much more to the market bar maybe reliability which isn't proven yet.
"Seed money" "The OEM customers have jumped ship"
This really is the forum of speculation and conjecture, why is it you guys are hoovering up anything negative at all you can find to repost here while ignoring anything positive, if a guy writes a few comments on the German forum and one is negative that is selected and posted here
Fairly obvious neither that guy nor woosh has a scooby. Its already well known the lead engineer left to go to Toseven and the company have been making other motors for years before releasing these..
A colleague of mine was in Suzhou last month to secure a contract with a motor manufacturer and its common knowledge out there that tongsheng have just had to let all their engineers go! what have you to say about that woosh? Not made up crap from some spotty German teenager dreaming he knows what's going on in factories in China while sitting in his mums basement . Actual facts from the horses mouth.
What are all these posts about the Tongsheng motors now being underpowered?, This thread seems hijacked by crackpots quoting other crackpots to hate on Toseven because they turned out not to be crap like they forecast, any real enthusiast would be keeping an open mind
Everyone seems to forget the crap "8fun" put out when they started up, Mechanically the Toseven motors are looking like they are shaping up to be solid. Some tweaks to be done on refining the torque sensor from early reviews. Nothing out of the ordinary is it
Tongsheng have had how long to get it right? and they have gone from poor to worse. Doesn't stop old wooshy boys tongue being right up their arse though does it. Everyone can see right through you mate. Bet your arse is making buttons now because if that Boost motor turns out to be crap you will have some grovelling to do . Tongsheng don't even have any engineers left if they haven't pulled off a miracle and got the boost motor right this time. Given their track record i wont be holding my breath
This really is the forum of speculation and conjecture, why is it you guys are hoovering up anything negative at all you can find to repost here while ignoring anything positive, if a guy writes a few comments on the German forum and one is negative that is selected and posted here
Fairly obvious neither that guy nor woosh has a scooby. Its already well known the lead engineer left to go to Toseven and the company have been making other motors for years before releasing these..
A colleague of mine was in Suzhou last month to secure a contract with a motor manufacturer and its common knowledge out there that tongsheng have just had to let all their engineers go! what have you to say about that woosh? Not made up crap from some spotty German teenager dreaming he knows what's going on in factories in China while sitting in his mums basement . Actual facts from the horses mouth.
What are all these posts about the Tongsheng motors now being underpowered?, This thread seems hijacked by crackpots quoting other crackpots to hate on Toseven because they turned out not to be crap like they forecast, any real enthusiast would be keeping an open mind
Everyone seems to forget the crap "8fun" put out when they started up, Mechanically the Toseven motors are looking like they are shaping up to be solid. Some tweaks to be done on refining the torque sensor from early reviews. Nothing out of the ordinary is it
Tongsheng have had how long to get it right? and they have gone from poor to worse. Doesn't stop old wooshy boys tongue being right up their arse though does it. Everyone can see right through you mate. Bet your arse is making buttons now because if that Boost motor turns out to be crap you will have some grovelling to do . Tongsheng don't even have any engineers left if they haven't pulled off a miracle and got the boost motor right this time. Given their track record i wont be holding my breath
Lorry full of e-bikes confiscated on the streets of Cardiff as part of crackdown
The bikes which were seized had the capability to travel at speeds of between 30mph and 42mph
www.walesonline.co.uk
Crackdown on e-bikes in Coventry city centre
Illegal bikes could be seized and crushed
www.coventrytelegraph.net
I am only interested in 250W motors, so underpower is not a big issue.
As for toseven making hub motors for years, they have no presence in the UK, no history on the net. It's a totally unknown brand.
Like most resellers, I am of course interested in new products but in bread and butter terms, we rely on products that sell themselves. That's not yet the case for toseven.
The Tongsheng is a 750w motor?
Tongsheng never made a 250w motor by all accounts. The motor cores were all the same size. They just changed the programming.
The information published by Toseven shows the 250w and 500w are physically different sized motor cores and different controllers
Same on the 750w and 1000w
So Toseven are making 4 motors. Tongsheng just the one and technically its not legal, cop's just need to take one look at the motor, Google it and see its a 750w motor
No, the TSDZ2B Turbo I ordered is a 250W version with EN15194 that Tongsheng makes for me.
I don't sell 750W kits. I don't sell BBS02 nor BBSHD from Bafang.
I think you mean that's what they are telling you and you are gullible enough to buy it
If they had the capability to make motors to EN15194 they would have made different variants like toseven, looks like more of the same from tongsheng... Put a sticker on it
Thing is mate, if it's got a manufacturers sticker on it, it's legal.
How do you test for maximum continuous power other than by running it at said power to see if it overheats. If it doesn't it's OK.
We/I didn't make the stupid rules we just have to show compliance.
I've just used a wizzy thingymabob in the kitchen to make pizza sauce - even that has a 300w rating !
How do you test for maximum continuous power other than by running it at said power to see if it overheats. If it doesn't it's OK.
We/I didn't make the stupid rules we just have to show compliance.
I've just used a wizzy thingymabob in the kitchen to make pizza sauce - even that has a 300w rating !
I emailed tongsheng about the TSDZ2B turbo and heard nothing back, so as far as I'm concerned they don't exist. Also there's no reviews for that motor, no videos or pictures
Whereas for the to7 motors there are people paid to connect to customers in forums, and there are units in the wild. I ordered the DM-02 direct from the manufacturer and am looking forward to seeing how it stacks up against the TSDZ2B with OSF I've been enjoying for the last month.
Sure there are unanswered questions about the motors which will come in time, but they seem like a solid mechanical platform that just needs some good software.
I don't know why you're all talking about the motor wattages. Firstly the DM-02 comes in a 250w variant so that should be fine for all you resellers trying to keep your jobs. For everyone else it really doesn't matter, it's completely unenforceable. For those anxious about getting stopped by the police there's the speed limiter. For everyone else it's a non-issue
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I fail to see the relevance. Are you talking about this?
> I once was being pursued for "negligence" by what thankfully proved an unsound claim;
Who knows if that's even related to ebikes
you are right on this, I mentioned it in this thread but not on my website because I have not got the item in stock yet.
I can also agree with this. The critical part in the software is the torque sensor. I experimented a lot with strain gauges and the problem with it is the small range of linear deformation of the bottom bracket axle. It could well be that there are few ways to implement torque sensing on bikes, they are still using a concentric sleeve.
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