Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?

[elinx]

All the motors face the same temperature challenge, ...
... stick some irreversible temperature strips on their motor.

Every motortype has advantages and disadvantages.
Everybody must decide what suits him/her the best.
But an irreversible sensor isn't very handy to prevent damage.
Better is to use a cheap temperature display

....
We are still waiting.

The ToSeven DM-02 is imho far of Tsdz2 as you can see with the exploded view drawing in the first post. Only the outside of the DM-02 looks the same, but mirrored.
imho there is noting wrong with waiting

 

[Bogmonster666]

I think the motor itsself can run safely up to 90 degrees C.
If this happens to one of my customers then I will stop selling the TSDX2. As I said, I have not been told by any of my customers.
It could well be that the overheating damages the insulation of the copper wire and short out the coils. In that case, heat will cause the controller to die too.

That is reassuring, no idea how many tsdz2 motors you have sold, but if this was a significant problem for the typical UK user I would image you would have found out by now. I expect most of your kits go to cyclists who want to pedal and want to tackle typical UK hills. I tend to think we hear about the failures, not the successes. I doubt I am particularly hard on the motor compared to many.

 

[Woosh]

I did remove the 90 degrees. It's not safe over 80 degrees.
My experience is the controller gets cooked pretty good if ambient temperature is that high. Although in the TSDZ2 favour, it's not double glazing, it's more like a convection oven.
I never have had to replace the motor inside on its own. It's usually the blue gear or the controller or water in the LCD or the cables or the speed sensor.

 

[saneagle]

Have you any idea when it will go on general sale and how much it is likely to cost? Where and when can I see the first reviews?

It's available now. all you have to do is order it:

48V 750W 1000W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever

48V 750W 1000W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever

www.pswpower.com

 

[saneagle]

I did remove the 90 degrees. It's not safe over 80 degrees.
My experience is the controller gets cooked pretty good if ambient temperature is that high. Although in the TSDZ2 favour, it's not double glazing, it's more like a convection oven.
I never have had to replace the motor inside on its own. It's usually the blue gear or the controller or water in the LCD or the cables or the speed sensor.

Yes, the motors don't overheat in the UK because they're cooled by the water that gets in.

 

[Bogmonster666]

it's more like a convection oven

How about a little compartment built into the case where one could keep warm a bacon and egg sandwich for the brunch stop?

 

[elinx]

I don't know how ToSeven have done the prvention of water ingress.
But with Tsdz2 the undersized shaft is imho the main reason for that.
I have insert an extra (Enduro) bearing instead of the rubber sealing and filled the space between crank and inner bearing with O-rings and silicon grease.


For better heat dissipation Toseven has removed the gap between motor and case. So no bacon and egg anymore.

 

[Nealh]

I have documented on the forum most of the mods to carry out, extra crank bearings, heat sensor placement, internal cooling and even filling the larger air chambers.
There are tow main air chamber to think about filling one inside the main motor and one on the RHS behind the plastic cover, the RHS void one can simply cut back the palstic cover so there is no air void and allow the motor casing to be open direct to air flow.
I have done the mods because I tow a trailer ( up to 100kg loaded) so though not in a hot climate or major hill climbing , I am riding off road not always dry ground conditions with minimal ascent. 63/64 c is what I see temp wise with the mods and temp sensor glued near to the motor stator/windings.
I simly used the 8/12wk thermal pads and some brass heat sinks for the voids and the motor.

 

[pxl666]

A Little offtopic but for all of you who wonder how to build cheap quite powerful mtb machine easy way . in short : osf with temp sensor and 34t chainring and 50t cassette and you can climb really steep paths without worry :

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wUW1Q5fqZ4vT7LBQ7

and for those who want to chill things up even more

10 new items by zespół Agencjawidok

photos.app.goo.gl

for me it's important to get motor without temperature flaw but as of now it's unsure ...on the other hand tsdz2 is dirt cheap so competition has to consider this . if to7 want to compete with much higher price they must prove the motor will be reliable with no maintenance for at least 3kkm and used heavily. I live close to mountains and my tsdz2 has been used quite heavily with no problems and for first 2kkm I ran it without osf and temp sensor...

 

[Nealh]

I don't know how ToSeven have done the prvention of water ingress.
But with Tsdz2 the undersized shaft is imho the main reason for that.
I have insert an extra bearing instead of the rubber sealing and filled the space between crank and inner bearing with O-rings and silicon grease.
View attachment 51434

For better heat dissipation Toseven has removed the gap between motor and case. So no bacon and egg anymore.

I use neoprene 2mm penny washer and adhere it to the crank case ridge with rubber butyl adhesive.
A lot of the guys/girls on here will know from my posts and pics what to do but a lot of the new users are lazy and don't use the forum search engine to find the info.

 

[elinx]

... a lot of the new users are lazy and don't use the forum search engine to find the info.

I'm not too lazy, but EndlesSphere is mostly my place to search and publish.

 

[alexfnoble]

Alex,

I have two mountain bikes to convert and to that end I have just bought a Tongsheng 750w for my wife's bike. The reason for that decision was that it is probably the best match for her needs at the present time. It is predictable, tame and easy to learn to use safely. Anything else would put her off I believe.

I however require more grunt for mine and the lack of a torque sensor on the Bafang 750w model is putting me off a little such that I have been wondering if the Tongsheng would be man enough if I changed the gearing on the bike say for instance through a bigger cassette or smaller chainring, keep the front derailleur etc. I may well end up having to buy a Bafang anyway but needless to say your motor interests me being that spec wise, it would suit my needs.

Have you any idea when it will go on general sale and how much it is likely to cost? Where and when can I see the first reviews?

Thank's and I wish you well with this motor. I genuinely hope it is a good one at a price that people can afford to pay. That being the case it certainly would fill a gap.

Regards,

AJ

Give me a day or two please to confirm sales
Staff in china are just getting back to work tomorrow after a few days public holiday.

In terms on the DM-01 the first in-depth review is likely to be published on the "high voltage" YouTube channel the guys over there are known for reviews putting motors through their paces and they also do external controller kits for some motors.

 

[Woosh]

Can somebody post a picture of the tsdz2 stator to illustrate the difference

 

[alexfnoble]

I came across the list of things that toseven proposed to do to beat the Tongsheng TSDZ2.

This is not a proposed list of things we we will do to beat the TSDZ2

Its a list of improvements our head engineer has made to our motors over his previous designs

The are done. They are implemented they are in the DM-02. There are even others not on this list

 

[alexfnoble]

Can somebody post a picture of the tsdz2 stator to illustrate the difference

 

[alexfnoble]

Note the gap because of the way the assembly is held together. This gap exists between the case and the stator. If you look at the machined housing you will see the stator now first snuggly into the housing and the assembly is all held together by the housing

 

[Woosh]

Thank you for the pictures, and welcome back. useful as it is, it does not show the before after difference. Elinx posted a picture of your stator, perhaps elinx has also a picture of the tsdz2 stator so we can compare.
By the way, the new motor looks very good

 

[Nealh]

I'm not too lazy, but EndlesSphere is mostly my place to search and publice.

No not thinking of you Elinx as I have seen you as a prominant poster on ES so already know you know all the ins/outs of the TSDZ.

 

[elinx]

..... also a picture of the tsdz2 stator so we can compare.
By the way, the new motor looks very good

Not directly the same picture, but at the left side between the red lines you can see the minimum gap between case cover and motor (about the size of the screwhead). Not to speak about the other (controller) side



But even more important there is a gap from about 2mm at the mounting side.
This one you can fill with an aluminium heatsink plate or thermopads as described in the Tsdz2 wiki.

 

[alexfnoble]

Someone else already posted this i think. Its a kit a company made to help with cooling. Again you can see that because of the way the motor assembly is held together and that the stator isnt mounted directly into the housing as with ours there always exists an gap.

Note the rods to hold the assembly together on the motor picture above. If you look at the picture of the empty housing you will see the threaded holes to accept the rods and hold the assembly together inside the housing. This eliminates the air gap